Kintamayama

This IS the July 2020 Basho thread!! Spoilers!!

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Just now, Ryoshishokunin said:

.... but that's the point!  The whole point of late-basho scheduling is to find the people that have something to fight for and match them up. 

Well, in the good old days with 3-4 yokozuna and 4+ ozeki up the wazoo to spare, sure. But when you're down to two yokozuna and ozeki each, both yokozuna are one bad fall away from intai, and one ozeki is running on half his limbs, you're gatekeeping your potential promotees pretty hard with a M17 comeback story, innit?

Unless we see something like the Kakuryu-Asanoyama bout in March, where Asanoyama gave Kakuryu a good run for his money and was judged to be able to put on that level of sumo.

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7 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Onosho already broke his record for worst Top Division Tournament win-loss record yesterday.  Today, the bleeding continued.

Not sure how many times, if ever, there has been a case of 0-15 finish in the Top Division with no kyujo involved.  At this stage, I am eager to see if that will happen just from the viewpoint that I have never been witness to that.  Then again, I feel sorry for Onosho, who must be frustrated as all get out.  

Tomorrow, he goes up against Ikioi, who is also struggling at 2:11.  If I didn't know any better, it looks as though Ikioi's cellulitis is acting up again.  At his rank 9W, and depending on the promotions from Juryo, I fear that he is in danger of dropping back down to the Second Division.  So both men have things on the line in tomorrow's bout.

Can't believe I have my eyes focused on that bout when there is so much more exciting stuff going on elsewhere in the Top Division!!!

You are not the only one! Not that I hate the poor guy, but I am really rooting for him to "achieve" a 0-15 record, just because I have never seen it happen ever since I started watching sumo. Twice, I almost saw it happen:

1) Daido in the 2013 July basho; he lost the first 14 matches before winning on the last day to end with 1-14. (Damn you Daido!)

2) Shohozan in the 2015 haru basho; his only win was on the 14th day and he ended the basho with 1-14.

Hoping for "better" luck this time! 

Hey wait a minute! I just remembered... Daido is now Onomatsu oyakata, Onosho's oyakata. 

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1 minute ago, Adil said:

You are not the only one! Not that I hate the poor guy, but I am really rooting for him to "achieve" a 0-15 record, just because I have never seen it happen ever since I started watching sumo. Twice, I almost saw it happen:

1) Daido in the 2013 July basho; he lost the first 14 matches before winning on the last day to end with 1-14. (Damn you Daido!)

2) Shohozan in the 2015 haru basho; his only win was on the 14th day and he ended the basho with 1-14.

Hoping for "better" luck this time! 

Hey wait a minute! I just remembered... Daido is now Onomatsu oyakata, Onosho's oyakata. 

And the basho just before Shohozan's was Ikioi, with a 1-14 from M2.

Interestingly enough, there were 43 cases of 1-14, but only 3 went intai within a year: Fujinishiki (1968), Itsutsuumi (1950) (and who was permanently kyujo from there on), and Tamanofuji (1981). So a 1-14 is not quite as damnable as a 0-15, at least in terms of morale if not injury.

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3 minutes ago, Adil said:

You are not the only one! Not that I hate the poor guy, but I am really rooting for him to "achieve" a 0-15 record, just because I have never seen it happen ever since I started watching sumo. Twice, I almost saw it happen:

1) Daido in the 2013 July basho; he lost the first 14 matches before winning on the last day to end with 1-14. (Damn you Daido!)

2) Shohozan in the 2015 haru basho; his only win was on the 14th day and he ended the basho with 1-14.

Hoping for "better" luck this time! 

Hey wait a minute! I just remembered... Daido is now Onomatsu oyakata, Onosho's oyakata. 

Two years ago I remember Yoshikaze going 0-13 and thinking he might not get a win, but he managed two wins at the end to finish 2-13.

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3 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Two years ago I remember Yoshikaze going 0-13 and thinking he might not get a win, but he managed two wins at the end to finish 2-13.

Don't forget Kyokutenho going 0-13 the basho after his yusho before finally pulling out wins on the final two days. 

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That was amazing! It was the third M17-Ō bout ever, according to my query. Two of them are from 2020, and those are the two that weren’t losses, a playoff, or before the six tournament system! All three were finished with yorikiri too.

There’s also an M16-Ō bout on the books, from a basho when M16 was the bottom of Makuuchi, and an M15-Ō match from when that was the bottom. Both were another loss for the maegashira involved, so it does seem to be a 2020 thing.

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Posted (edited)

The old guards refuse to back down! Teru was not exactly in kaiju mode, but he won. Probably nerves on Asanoyama too.

I remember when Yoshikaze started 0-13 one basho, then finally got his first shiroboshi on day 14. The crowd was cheering in huge relief. Hope the same thing will happen to Onosho tomorrow. 

*These guys above beat me to it :-D

Edited by hakutorizakura

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One thing not yet mentioned is that should Terunofuji take the yusho, that would be his third in four basho. He took the Makushita title and Juryo title on his climb back up.
 

He’s also currently won 35/43 bouts as a sekitori. Not too shabby.

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Posted (edited)
32 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

The old guards refuse to back down! Teru was not exactly in kaiju mode, but he won. Probably nerves on Asanoyama too.

I hate to make this bold suggestion, but today's match-up between Terunofuji and Asanoyama may well end up being the decisive bout of the tournament.  Hakuho withdrawing makes it all the more so.  There are still two days left, so there is still a chance for an Asanoyama comeback.

I'm not convinced that Shodai can beat Terunofuji tomorrow (but who knows?).  I suspect that Asanoyama will need a senshuraku miracle to have a chance at hoisting the Emperor's Cup.

Over on Abema TV, guest commentator Kyokudozan made multiple references to "Ozeki pride", and that could well be driving Terunofuji towards his second Top Division championship victory.

In other cases where injured Top Division notables drop way down the banzuke only to fight their way back through the lower divisions, they usually end up taking multiple division championships along the way.  But if Terunofuji pulls THIS off, he will be the first to win the Top Division championship the first time back.  Awesome stuff (if it happens).

And let's not forget what happened today down in Makushita.  Injured-and-fallen Top Division notable, Chiyonokuni, secured the Mukushita championship with fellow fallen Top Division notable, Ura, in second place.

It seems to be comeback city at the 2020 July Tournament.

 

You beat me to it, Eikokurai!  I guess we were on the same wavelength...

Edited by Amamaniac
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Can't stop trying to imagine how happy John Gunning must be right now.

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2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

One thing not yet mentioned is that should Terunofuji take the yusho, that would be his third in four basho. He took the Makushita title and Juryo title on his climb back up.
 

He’s also currently won 35/43 bouts as a sekitori. Not too shabby.

Tochinoshin himself took 4 back to back (2x makushita, 2x juryo) on his way back up from Ms55. Both makushita basho and the second juryo basho were zensho too. In his re-entrant tournament, his 3-basho score was 39/45. But that said, Tochinoshin probably wasn't as injured as Terunofuji is at that time...

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3 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Can't stop trying to imagine how happy John Gunning must be right now.

I hope he doesn't try and invite his buddy out for a celebratory dinner, and get Teru into Abi-like trouble! (Laughing...)

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19 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Can't stop trying to imagine how happy John Gunning must be right now.

Mr. Gunning is not the only happy person right now.

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Even though we missed an entire basho because of COVID-19 the Sumo Gods have blessed us with two M17 "Cinderella-stories", it could definitely be worse :-P:-D

Really glad for Terunofuji, after all what has happened to come back in such a fashion takes a tremendous amount of willpower. 

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4 minutes ago, Gernobono said:

there still is mighty shodai :-D

So changed is the sumo landscape that we're now referring to Shodai as "mighty"!

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I am so bloody annoyed at Terunofuji for ruining Asanoyama's party! I'm also forced to admit it's the best evidence yet that the beast may indeed be back (I'm still building up to the point where I admit I was totally wrong about him..). A very messy last few days with a two- or three-way play-off at the end would be good now. 

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Watching the bout just now I couldn’t help thinking that I was on another timeline, watching two Yokozuna in a senshuraku showdown. It could so easily have been the case (still could be I suppose ...)

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Posted (edited)

Ryuden's vow to get his kachikoshi majority wins this tournament in memory of his stablemate and longer time friend, the late Shobushi, stayed alive today.  He went up against Kotoshogiku, and despite having suffered a nose injury a few days earlier, Ryuden pulled off a critical win.  He is now 6–7 and needs to win his next two bouts.

I'll be rooting for him!

Edited by Amamaniac
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10 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

I can't help but feel that Mitakeumi is being sold a bit short here. The wrestler I always find myself comparing him to is Kakuryu. 

Kakuryu took three years from his Sanyaku debut to reach Ozeki. Mitakeumi is going on four years. 

However, It took Kakuryu three years from his Makuuchi debut to reach Sanyaku, while Mitakeumi accomplished this in one year. 

Along the way, he has picked up two Yusho, no small feat, while Kakuryu never managed this before reaching Ozeki. 

It remains to be seen whether he reaches Ozeki (given the current landscape I believe he makes it eventually), but I think it's a bit too early to write him off. 

Kisenosato - five and half years after he first became komusubi to become Ozeki. During that time he was never ranked lower than M6 (once) was in the joi the whole time, and had 22 basho in Sanyaku. Lots and lots of people thought he would never make it to Ozeki. Then many people (including me) thought he would never get the rope. Some rikishi just take time to find the way to break through to the next level.

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6 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Based on the evidence of this basho, the next ozeki will be Terunofuji.

Ugh, I hope not.

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Mitakeumi has M16 Kotoeko tomorrow and then - normally Daieisho I guess, but who knows, perhaps he gets Terunofuji? 10+11 wins in two basho would be a good stepping stone for yet another ozeki attempt, 10+12 would be even better.

Shodai can in fact reach 33 wins in three basho if he wins his remaining bouts. Would 13+8+12 starting from M4 be enough? Probably not. If he makes ozeki soon it's more likely to be in Hatsu 2021, with this basho being the first out of three.

Terunofuji: can an ozeki run be started from M17? Remains to be seen.

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3 minutes ago, Kashunowaka said:

Terunofuji: can an ozeki run be started from M17? Remains to be seen.

With an M17 yusho, you'd have to think yes. Imagine if gets up to M2-ish and wins again? That'd be a hell of a thing.

Disclaimer: I know how stupidly unlikely this is to happen.

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4 hours ago, specialweek 2 said:

Any thoughts as to why they chose this match up jumping by both M6 opponents?

They all three have to face higher ranked rikishi on day 14 but yes, Teru gets the most difficult opponent. I am just guessing, but could perhaps be because a) Terutsuyoshi had one win more when the torikumi was decided, and b) both Enho and Ryuden (esp. Enho) have had tougher schedules this basho. Enho has faced 9 higher ranked rikishi, Terutsuyoshi has faced 5.

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5 minutes ago, Kashunowaka said:

Mitakeumi has M16 Kotoeko tomorrow and then - normally Daieisho I guess, but who knows, perhaps he gets Terunofuji? 10+11 wins in two basho would be a good stepping stone for yet another ozeki attempt, 10+12 would be even better.

While Mitakeumi hasn't quite proven himself on the consistency front,  I would be more than happy to see him reach the ranks of Ozeki.  If he can figure out how to fight the way he did against Hakuho on day 12 for 15 days straight, then we have a valid Ozeki candidate.

But as for his Ozeki run, I am not sure that his 10 wins at M3w in January will count towards promotion consideration, but you never know.  Generally, the Judges Committee likes to see 33+ wins in three straight Sanyaku appearances.  But I will admit there have been exceptions in the past.  In Tochinoshin's case, though, that initial M3w tournament represented him winning the championship, so that counted for more than a M3w 10.  But with the potential of some intai retirements at the top of the banzuke, who knows, they may just be desperate enough to give Mitakeumi the nod as long as he does super well in September.

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