Kintamayama

This IS the July 2020 Basho thread!! Spoilers!!

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25 minutes ago, Sue said:

But why does Mitakeumi have such trouble on nakabi?

One way to figure that out is to look at the database, and see who Mitakeumi was matched up against on nakabi going back to January 2018 (I know, it's a small sample; colour me lazy).

That gives us 14 cases (since Mitakeumi withdrew from the January 2019 tournament before nakabi).  So here is the breakdown:

Mitakeumi won only 5 of those 14 cases (all were against lower-ranked opponents).  Of the 9 that he lost, 4 were against higher-ranked opponents (i.e., to be expected).  That leaves 5.  If you look at those 5, 2 were against fellow Sekiwake, so those bouts were on relatively level terms.  And so we are left with 3 losses that should have been wins.

So basically, we have a situation where Mitakeumi won 5 out of 8 bouts against lower-ranked wrestlers on nakabi, when perhaps he should have won more.  Meanwhile, he has been unable to pull off an upset on nakabi, at least never in the aforementioned sample.

Clearly, this does not answer the question, but perhaps it clarifies how the matchups may have influenced the statistic.

# I tried

 

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2 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

The elderly conservative crowd see in him the perfect classic sumotori. 

What attributes of him contribute to that?

I'd have thought Asanoyama or Takakeisho would have been the poster boys for that.

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Mitakeumi by day

 

 

early late
1 5 12
2 8 14
3 4 16
4 3 11
5 2 14
6 6 11
7 2 12
8 3 5
9 8 9
10 4 11
11 3 9
12 6 8
13 7 12
14 6 8
15 8 12

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Sorry about the format of the above; early is 2015 11 - 2017 1, when he made it up to K; late is after, when established in sanyaku.

Early, he had a tendency to sag in the middle, late he's better in the first half than the second.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

What would be interesting is if you control for quality of opposition, both in terms of rank and opposition. Mitakeumi has been in sanyaku a lot longer than Shodai, and the second week is traditionally when sekiwake start fighting the yokozuna and ozeki, especially given that there've been 3-4 ozeki for much of the time when Mitakeumi was sekiwake. Can his slump be attributed to the fact that he's fighting a generally higher quality of opposition? Or have they happened even with a depleted sanyaku slate?

Of course, it's basically just a back-of-the-envelope graph. :-)

But see (partial) answer below:

24 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Sorry about the format of the above; early is 2015 11 - 2017 1, when he made it up to K; late is after, when established in sanyaku.

Early, he had a tendency to sag in the middle, late he's better in the first half than the second.

Thanks for the data -- I also made a plot of those.

sm2.JPG

 

Well, if the two Y's retire and Asano+Taka eventually manage to reach the top, then probably S+M don't seem too unlikely to be TNO. But yeah, who knows!

*BTW, today I learned what "sod all" means -- thanks for the education (I've ran out of likes, too many good posts here...). And I guess I need to check what's in my fridge. (Buyuzan...)

Edited by hakutorizakura
couldn't write things under the uploaded image in the initial post -- or is it just me?
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2 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

His more immediate goal is breaking the Wolf's oldest yusho winner as a Yokozuna record, which apparently he becomes eligible to do next tournament

Haguroyama anyone? 37 years and 2 months in January 1952.

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6 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:
2 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

His more immediate goal is breaking the Wolf's oldest yusho winner as a Yokozuna record, which apparently he becomes eligible to do next tournament

Haguroyama anyone? 37 years and 2 months in January 1952.

I suppose that these particular records focus on wrestlers in the six-annual-tournament era...  Your point is well taken.  Perhaps send a quick message to Hiro Morita and the boys, ... not to mention Hakuho! ;-)

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*record scratch*

*freeze frame*

Yup, that's me. You're probably wondering how I ended up in this situation.

IawHCDF.jpg

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1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

The elderly conservative crowd see in him the perfect classic sumotori.  

I'm crushed!

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7 minutes ago, Karasukurai said:

I'm crushed!

How do you think his girlfriend feels?  (Sorry, no more bad jokes from me ... for today.)

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1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

Shades of Wakanosato, I say. Will never make it to Ozeki, regardless of his being a nice guy. We shall see. 

Wakanosato was never close to winning a yusho and never did better than 11-4, so I think Mitakeumi's chances are slightly better. Unless he has passed his peak already of course.

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1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

The elderly conservative crowd see in him the perfect classic sumotori. 

In Germany we'd refer to him as Schwiegermutters Liebling...mother-in-law's darling.

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11 minutes ago, Benihana said:

In Germany we'd refer to him as Schwiegermutters Liebling...mother-in-law's darling.

What a fantastic phrase!

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13 minutes ago, Benihana said:

In Germany we'd refer to him as Schwiegermutters Liebling...mother-in-law's darling.

Does that mean someone who is smarmily endearing?

German has a lot of lovely phrases that don't translate well into English; I'm afraid we need some help unpacking the connotations.

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Just now, Karasukurai said:

What a fantastic phrase!

Germany, the land of poets and thinkers. 

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16 minutes ago, Benihana said:

In Germany we'd refer to him as Schwiegermutters Liebling...mother-in-law's darling.

Perhaps in the UK as the 'housewives choice'.

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5 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

Does that mean someone who is smarmily endearing?

No, just that he's her favorite. Might be the shy guy, might be the most helpful, might be somewhat assholish. Depends upon the guy and the mother-in-law.

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Just now, Seiyashi said:

Does that mean someone who is smarmily endearing?

German has a lot of lovely phrases that don't translate well into English; I'm afraid we need some help unpacking the connotations.

I had to look up smarmily ^^ Weeell, you could use it with some irony. But most of the time it really stands for the good looking, charming and very likeable good guy who'd be every mom-in-law's choice to bang her daughter for the sake of grandchildren.

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Posted (edited)

Mitakeumi has developed into a skilled sanyaku mainstay with 2 yusho to his name, capable of beating anyone, but he seems to lack the necessary consistency to become ozeki. He's not the first and I don't hate him for it. On the contrary, he's still one of my favourite rikishi. I just don't have unrealistic expectations any longer.

Edited by RabidJohn
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2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Last May I was at the kkan. Quietly but visibly, Mitakeumi fans outnumbered other fans by far, including Enhou fans.

Back about a year ago or more, Mitakeumi told reporters that he was quite overwhelmed by all the "supporter towels" that his fans had purchased, and he lamented that he was not getting any cut from the sales...  That alone showed how his fan base far outnumbers those of his rivals.

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1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

Mitakeumi has developed into a skilled sanyaku mainstay with 2 yusho to his name, capable of beating anyone, but he seems to lack the necessary consistency to become ozeki. He's not the first and I don't hate him for it. On the contrary, he's still one of my favourite rikishi. I just don't have unrealistic expectations any longer.

Well put for the most part. 

Mitakeumi seemed quite consistant for the longest time, going for something like 15 consecutive sanyaku tournaments. He lacks top performance consistancy (10+ wins), but still hovers around the upper ranks for the most part and earns mostly Kachikoshi. 

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6 hours ago, Karasukurai said:

Now Mitakeumi , never liked the guy. He's got the 'proper' rikishi 'look', vast amounts of skill and whenever I've seen him in programmes he comes across as a nice guy. He's totally infuriating, beats the best then loses to the worst and there's a lot of Mita dislike on here, perhaps rightfully so.

This is how I felt about the former Goeido. Everything about him, look, skill etc SCREAMED sumotori. Obviously reaching Ozeki is far from nothing, but his constant kadobans and willingness to resort to 'cheap' sumo turned me against him quite quickly. He looked like a Yokozuna and had the skill, but just wouldn't carry himself as one, if that makes sense.

Since his retirement, I've been wondering who would become my 'love to hate' wrestler and I fear it may be Mitakeumi (who I've always liked). Purely because he "let's you down" by not living up to his potential. Again, two yusho's, far from nothing, he looks the part, has the skill, but he just doesn't have the spirit, and it's heartbreaking. 

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Posted (edited)

Been checking the news sites and the NSK, but it looks like Hakuho is going to tough it out for day 13. Perhaps he wants to match up against Terunofuji???

Edited by WAKATAKE

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I can't help but feel that Mitakeumi is being sold a bit short here. The wrestler I always find myself comparing him to is Kakuryu. 

Kakuryu took three years from his Sanyaku debut to reach Ozeki. Mitakeumi is going on four years. 

However, It took Kakuryu three years from his Makuuchi debut to reach Sanyaku, while Mitakeumi accomplished this in one year. 

Along the way, he has picked up two Yusho, no small feat, while Kakuryu never managed this before reaching Ozeki. 

It remains to be seen whether he reaches Ozeki (given the current landscape I believe he makes it eventually), but I think it's a bit too early to write him off. 

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