Kintamayama

This IS the July 2020 Basho thread!! Spoilers!!

Recommended Posts

20 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Must be. I checked out the times on the bout length thread and his times (today not included) are:

20.3

90.3

20.5

8.2

26.2

2.9

20.0

25.9

2.8

That minute-and-a-halfer alone was probably more than most guys have fought when their ten days are combined.

Confirmed. For the first 7 days he was shown with an average of 28.43s, Shohozan 2nd with 24.09s, then Kiribayama, Terunofuji, Asanoyama

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another headbutt-tastic bout today between Aoiyama and Takakeisho. The latter was super punchy at the end, i thought he was going to collapse and he didn't look like he really knew where he was. Every time I see these guys whacking heads like that it makes me cringe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Genjurooo said:
1 hour ago, Adil said:

Kotoshogiku's non-knee-bending crouch: I have seen some forum members saying that he is doing so to protect his knees; well, that posture can't be doing his back any good. I cringe and wince every time I see him doing this.

I remember seeing other heavier guys doing that posture in lower divisions. It indeed has bad aesthetics.

As much as we Forum members may be put off by the new shikiri stance/tachiai stance, that stance certainly seems to be working relatively well for the veteran, Kotoshogiku.  

7-3 is a pretty good record for a 36 year-old who has been in oozumo for 19 years.  (Punkrocker...)

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

As much as we Forum members may be put off by the new shikiri stance/tachiai stance, that stance certainly seems to be working relatively well for the veteran, Kotoshogiku.  

7-3 is a pretty good record for a 36 year-old who has been in oozumo for 19 years.  (Punkrocker...)

Yeah, I don’t have any issue with it. It’s good to see him adding new tricks. Aminishiki adapted his sumo to his age and prolonged his career until his 40s. We can’t expect guys to go on fighting the same old way when their bodies no longer allow it. It’s a smart rikishi who recognizes his changing circumstances and limitations and adjusts. Besides, I reckon the new stance has saved Kotoshogiku a few times already. Even though he lost today his tachiai technique did mean Ishiura couldn’t do his usual henka move on the big man.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Yeah, I don’t have any issue with it. It’s good to see him adding new tricks. Aminishiki adapted his sumo to his age and prolonged his career until his 40s. We can’t expect guys to go on fighting the same old way when their bodies no longer allow it. It’s a smart rikishi who recognizes his changing circumstances and limitations and adjusts. Besides, I reckon the new stance has saved Kotoshogiku a few times already. Even though he lost today his tachiai technique did mean Ishiura couldn’t do his usual henka move on the big man.

Actually his ability to assume the "new" stance impresses me in that it looks more difficult than the regular squat.  

What I can't figure out, though, is that it goes against the whole premise that a low initial charge is more effective.  There has been a lot of scientific research done on the tachiai, and if I remember correctly, the Kotoshogiku of (let's say) 5 years ago was involved in that research/documentary.  Needless to say, Hakuho was also involved, and his tachiai (the angle of his back etc) was shown to be the most powerful of all.

While the tachiai is always heralded as the key to winning bouts, I have seen enough evidence that there is much, much more to winning bouts than the tachiai.  (Let the attacks begin!)  XP

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Actually his ability to assume the "new" stance impresses me in that it looks more difficult than the regular squat.  

What I can't figure out, though, is that it goes against the whole premise that a low initial charge is more effective.  There has been a lot of scientific research done on the tachiai, and if I remember correctly, the Kotoshogiku of (let's say) 5 years ago was involved in that research/documentary.  Needless to say, Hakuho was also involved, and his tachiai (the angle of his back etc) was shown to be the most powerful of all.

While the tachiai is always heralded as the key to winning bouts, I have seen enough evidence that there is much, much more to winning bouts than the tachiai.  (Let the attacks begin!)  XP

I always have the impression that Ama just shoots horizontally from his frog stance at tachiai. He must have one of the lowest angles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Actually his ability to assume the "new" stance impresses me in that it looks more difficult than the regular squat.  

What I can't figure out, though, is that it goes against the whole premise that a low initial charge is more effective.  There has been a lot of scientific research done on the tachiai, and if I remember correctly, the Kotoshogiku of (let's say) 5 years ago was involved in that research/documentary.  Needless to say, Hakuho was also involved, and his tachiai (the angle of his back etc) was shown to be the most powerful of all.

While the tachiai is always heralded as the key to winning bouts, I have seen enough evidence that there is much, much more to winning bouts than the tachiai.  (Let the attacks begin!)  XP

We know Kotoshogiku used to be really vulnerable to sidesteps and slapdowns from his old powerful tachi-ai. Based on how he's moving after the tachi-ai now though, my guess is that because he's bent over, he's forcing himself to look up and at the opponent to avoid getting henka-ed, while at the same time using momentum and gravity to push him forward rather than powering it with his lower body. 

Re the "effectiveness" of a low initial charge, that depends on your definition of "effective". I'd be very interested to see that documentary, but if effective was defined solely by the amount of force you deliver to your opponent at the tachi-ai, you've put your finger on it since force isn't everything. Then there's also "best in class" vs "good enough".

Edited by Seiyashi
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kotoshogiku  Vs Tochinoshin match on day 6, Koto had his new stance which seems to involve wiggling arms before touching he ground. I think Koto stood up at the first tachiai, then there were two mattas. Tochi was clearly arsed off and threw him down when they eventually got going. Tochi was so dismissive it made me laugh out loud.

But yes, kudos to Koto, if he's still up for sumo and needs to adjust things to prolong his career then go for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, hakutorizakura said:

I always have the impression that Ama just shoots horizontally from his frog stance at tachiai. He must have one of the lowest angles.

If Force = Mass X Acceleration, then Ama had the Acceleration in spades.  "Mass", not so much.  But despite that, he seemed to be most successful when he adopted the nodowa throat thrust straight out of the tachiai.  But that tachiai strategy does not rely solely on force of impact.

You speak of Ama in the present tense.  I have to assume you are referring to the now retired Ama/Harumafuji. ;-)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Seiyashi said:

We know Kotoshogiku used to be really vulnerable to sidesteps and slapdowns from his old powerful tachi-ai. Based on how he's moving after the tachi-ai now though, my guess is that because he's bent over, he's forcing himself to look up and at the opponent to avoid getting henka-ed, while at the same time using momentum and gravity to push him forward rather than powering it with his lower body. 

Re the "effectiveness" of a low initial charge, that depends on your definition of "effective". I'd be very interested to see that documentary, but if effective was defined solely by the amount of force you deliver to your opponent at the tachi-ai, you've put your finger on it since force isn't everything. Then there's also "best in class" vs "good enough".

Great initial post, Seiyashi.

I tried looking for the documentary in question, but I can't seem to find it on YouTube.  It came out around the time that Kotoshogiku got promoted to Ozeki, or perhaps it was when he won his first and only Top Div yusho.  Come to think of it, I might have seen it on television way back while I was living in Tokyo.  Sorry, not much help there.  But another thing that was featured was that Kotoshogiku had begun working with a sports psychologist, and that seemed to have made a difference in terms of his success.

In my YouTube search, I found this little gem of a clip (and it will have to do for now):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2VIvzDKsOaQ

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They are SUPER inconsistent about calling mattas this basho. There was a match a few days ago (I forget which) which was called off as a matta after one of the rikishi was down on the dohyo, and then today Terunofuji and Shohozan went at it with zero hands down and no matta.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Another tough mono-ii, this time overturning a much-needed win for Yutakayama.

Much as I'd like to have seen a torinaoshi, one angle made it super clear that his foot really did turn over first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I keep thinking of Takayasu and Tochinoshin as kadoban, but they're not -- they're just low ranked and in need of a KK. Takayasu in particular really needs to get it going.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

Tagonoura appears to be the next person within the NSK to be in trouble due to unnecessary outings during the basho and not following Corona guidelines by the NSK. He had gone out to dinner at an unknown date but pictures circulating on the internet show him to be drunk. He took a test and the results turned out to be negative. Shibatayama had his opinion on the situation and commented that as a leader that holds a heya that he has to be more careful. Taganoura has so far received a stern warning, and there are no other disciplinary actions being announced so far.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202007280000389.html

Tagonoura says he doesn't know if it was before or during the basho:

4f8a77576dcaab98383898c15bd86c24.png

Abi was in nightclubs before AND during the basho

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Abi was in nightclubs before AND during the basho

And if I know Abi, he's probably there right now! ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 28/07/2020 at 13:35, Amamaniac said:

At this point, Onosho is hoping to avoid registering his worst record (not counting kyujo) in his sekitori career.  In September 2018, he ended with a 4-11 record.  That means he can't afford to lose two more times in the next five days!  But clearly, this has been Onosho's worst ever start to a Top Division tournament.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=12043

Keep in mind that this is the guy who handed Hakuho one of his two losses in March!!!

I'm not too worried about him. We should not forget that he had the toughest program during these first 10 days, fighting all wrestlers between Y and M2.

His sumo is not particularly bad. He could even finish with a 5-10 if he's not too stressed by this 1st victory that escapes him.

Edit 30.07: His sumo is was not particularly bad... Hum, I jinxed him (Weeping...)

Edited by serge_gva

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And even if he doesn't, a 0-15 from M2 won't drop him all the way to Juryo (if you consider it equivalent to Takayasu's 0-5-10 last tournament); Takayasu's example suggests he'll land somewhere around M15 maybe.

If he's not nursing an injury, he might well do a Shodai and come back to sanyaku after that too.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

And if I know Abi, he's probably there right now! ;-)

He was condemned to house arrest with his wife

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It looked like Enho was trying to crawl through Kagayaki's legs. Was he hoping to shoulder him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, hakutorizakura said:

Man.. Mitakeumi, when not sleeping, is surely a formidable opponent!

He sleeps often in 2nd half of the basho.  

Hak plans to lose a bout in the next 3 matches to make it interesting.   He texted me as much.   The man has been absolutely unbeatable in this basho.  The long break served him well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sue said:

I keep thinking of Takayasu and Tochinoshin as kadoban, but they're not -- they're just low ranked and in need of a KK.

Actually, they're kadoban forever now.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, ScreechingOwl said:

Terunofuji strung together four basho at sekiwake and ozeki which were at (or near) yokozuna strength and his promotion seemed imminent - and then he was injured. It's great that he's back and doing well, but he'll never be the same.

In retrospect, it's great they didn't promote him to yokozuna right before his injury. Good chance he would've had to retire and gone down in history as the ultimate "yokozuna for 5 minutes".

--

The following picture is actually from yesterday, and I took it by accident, but for some reason it's really hilarious to me. Send this to your friends when they ask you what sumo is all about.

Hvk5ClK.jpg

Also unrelated but I thought this shot would make a nice background:

jiR0kKS.jpg

By the way, that same unknown masked individual from before was back again today. (fmr. Tochiozan, Kiyomigata.)

(He got complimented on how good he looks in a suit.)

TuykDAm.jpg

 

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

He got complimented on how good he looks in a suit.

Younger, so much younger.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now