Kintamayama

This IS the July 2020 Basho thread!! Spoilers!!

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9 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Yutakayama wins! 

*checks torikumi*

Oh, only against Onosho.

I noticed his shoulder was taped. I wonder if his struggles this basho are from a shoulder injury that I hadn't previously heard about.

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Posted (edited)

I put my tin-foil hat on, and here is my latest conspiracy theory:

Of the three monoii called in the second half of today's Top Division action, arguably the most controversial one was that for the Takakeisho versus Enho bout.  

While for some reason, NHK was not showing the shimpancho head judge for the monoii decisions, to the best of my knowledge, Takadagawa Oyakata was serving as the chief judge in the second half.  

Takakeisho is a kadoban Ozeki in this tournament, and indications are that he needs all the help he can get to preserve his Ozeki rank.  With no sanyaku wrestler currently on an Ozeki run, the Kyokai probably doesn't want to go back to a solo Ozeki + Yokozuna-Ozeki banzuke.  

Takakeisho belongs to the Chiganoura Stable, which since the demise of the Takanohana Ichimon, is affiliated with the Nishonoseki Ichimon.  Takadagawa Oyakata and his stable also just happen to belong to the Nishonoseki Ichimon.

Moreover, how do you think Isegahama Oyakata would have ruled if he were the Shimpancho at the time?

# just saying (Helpme...)

 

Edited by Amamaniac

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2 hours ago, Dapeng said:

As Rabid just said, Chyunofuji retired when he saw a youngster coming up to replace him, however, he was already unable to yusho. Otherwise he would have kept going on for 1 more yusho.

Asanoyama will be the next yokozuna (probably before the Tokyo Olympic) for sure. After one or two years, he may reach the strength of the current day Hakuho and the latter will hang up his mawashi.

Let's be cautious about saying "for sure" regarding yokozuna promotion, because he has to stay healthy, and that requires some luck. Terunofuji strung together four basho at sekiwake and ozeki which were at (or near) yokozuna strength and his promotion seemed imminent - and then he was injured. It's great that he's back and doing well, but he'll never be the same. 

Nothing is for sure in sports, and sumo puts more of a strain on the body that most other sports do. So fingers crossed for a continually healthy Asanoyama. 

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44 minutes ago, ScreechingOwl said:

Let's be cautious about saying "for sure" regarding yokozuna promotion, because he has to stay healthy, and that requires some luck. Terunofuji strung together four basho at sekiwake and ozeki which were at (or near) yokozuna strength and his promotion seemed imminent - and then he was injured. It's great that he's back and doing well, but he'll never be the same. 

Nothing is for sure in sports, and sumo puts more of a strain on the body that most other sports do. So fingers crossed for a continually healthy Asanoyama. 

+1 for that!

The other thing to remember about Terunofuji, though, is how badly managed that initial injury was. If he'd sat out 2-3 basho to fully recover, he would've probably dropped no further than juryo and come back to get the rope by now. 

Asanoyama will have to be remarkably fortunate to avoid injury altogether, so let's hope it's never too serious and it's always treated sensibly.

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38 minutes ago, ScreechingOwl said:

Let's be cautious about saying "for sure" regarding yokozuna promotion, because he has to stay healthy, and that requires some luck. Terunofuji strung together four basho at sekiwake and ozeki which were at (or near) yokozuna strength and his promotion seemed imminent - and then he was injured. It's great that he's back and doing well, but he'll never be the same. 

Nothing is for sure in sports, and sumo puts more of a strain on the body that most other sports do. So fingers crossed for a continually healthy Asanoyama. 

Asanoyama is not the kind of rikishi who is easily injured. Those who are prone to injury are usually already at their physical limits to maintain their ranks. Although it's his first basho at ozeki, he is quite comfortable at the rank. If he wins this basho, he has a good chance to be promoted this Nov. 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

Asanoyama is not the kind of rikishi who is easily injured. Those who are prone to injury are usually already at their physical limits to maintain their ranks. Although it's his first basho at ozeki, he is quite comfortable at the rank. If he wins this basho, he has a good chance to be promoted this Nov. 

He's an ozeki, so yeah, if he yushos he's on a tsuna run, but that's another level of pressure and expectation weighing on him - after doing the rounds showing his face at parties and celebrations. A chance, yes: a good chance, maybe not... 

I believe (I'm not a db miner) that two yusho in his first two basho as ozeki and straight to yokozuna would also place Asanoyama in an incredibly rarified group of rikishi. He's good, but let's not get carried away, eh?

None of which is to say I wouldn't love to see it happen!

Edited by RabidJohn
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Day 9 speaks:

Terunofuji, getting his kachikoshi after his long climb back up to Makuuchi: "I'm glad i was able to give it all I had today. This was my best bout this basho. I'm taking it a day at a time and all I can do is all I can do..I'm glad I believed in my Oyakata's words (when he told him not to give up), and here I am.."

Shoudai, getting his kachikoshi : "I'm simply happy. My body is responding well. Before the basho I was worried about my ring sense, but I got it back in the first few days. Yusho? Not thinking too much of it but it is somewhere in my head.. It's probably because it's something I never experienced.."

Asanoyama , winning a torinaoshi: " It's important to win in this fashion as well.. I will pull myself together and gambarize. I attempted a  thrown as I was being pushed back in the first bout and I thought I had lost. I'm taking it day by day and thinking about doing my own brand of sumo."

Kotoshougiku, getting his 715th Makuuchi career win, overtaking Kisenosato and now in 6th place overall: "I can only face my bouts one by one and gambarize, while hoping to please all those that have supported me. To be able to do the sumo I did today boosts my confidence and makes me want to gambarize even more!"

Enhou, losing to Takakeishou, but did he really lose? "I felt I was still in but I was overpowered by him from the start so nothing was good about my sumo. There still is a difference in power between me and the top guys. I hope to do better tomorrow!"

Yutakayama, getting his first win: "I did what I'm capable of at the moment and won so that was good. I wasn't thinking what my opponents were going to do- I've mostly been beating myself.. Yesterday I felt like myself for the first time in a long time. I went out there in attack mode. I've still got a lot to achieve. I shall use my makekoshi as a springboard for the next basho!" 

Kiribayama, beating Mitakeumi :"I grabbed his mawashi from the tachiai so I was able to go about it calmly. I've faced all the sanyaku, right? I'm really happy I beat the Ozeki (Takakeishou on day 6). Win or lose, I just want to do good sumo!". 

Myougiryuu, turning the tables on Kotoekou and getting close to kachikoshi: "My body was moving. I'm just going out there day by day."

.

 

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28 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I believe (I'm not a db miner) that two yusho in his first two basho as ozeki and straight to yokozuna would also place Asanoyama in an incredibly rarified group of rikishi. He's good, but let's not get carried away, eh?

Quite rare. Here are all precedents where only two basho at Ozeki were needed for promotion:
http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=4&form1_basho_nr=2&form1_rank=o&form1_debutr=on&form2_basho_nr=4&form2_rank=y&form2_debutr=on

 

19 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Enhou, losing to Takakeishou, but did he really lose? "I felt I was still in but I was overpowered by him from the start so nothing was good about my sumo. There still is a difference in power between me and the top guys. I hope to do better tomorrow!"

Humble guy! (Signofapproval...)

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23 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Interesting to compare that one with this query.

Any historians can tell me why Chiyonoyama wasn't promoted?

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49 minutes ago, Sakura said:

Interesting to compare that one with this query.

Any historians can tell me why Chiyonoyama wasn't promoted?

Not a historian, but my guess would be that for the second yusho, all three of the current Yokozuna and two of the sekiwake were kyujo. It was not a particularly strong win.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Sakura said:

Interesting to compare that one with this query.

Any historians can tell me why Chiyonoyama wasn't promoted?

From Joe Kuroda:

With two consecutive yusho, many – including Chiyonoyama himself – believed the promotion to yokozuna was imminent. However, at this basho, none of the three yokozuna were in top condition. Haguroyama had a 6 wins/4 losses/5 kyujo record, while Azumafuji ended with 6 wins/6 losses/3 kyujo and Terukuni had 2 wins, 2 losses and 11 kyujo. Pointing out Chiyonoyama’s 12-win record this basho, his shisho, Dewanoumi Oyakata took an unusual step by declining his rikishi’s yokozuna promotion: “We are grateful for the consideration, but I am not pleased at all with the 12-win yusho. As I firmly believe he is a man who could become a yokozuna in the very near future, I would like to decline the deliberation at this time”.

https://www.sumofanmag.com/content/Issue_4/Rikishi_of_Old.htm

Edited by ryafuji
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12 hours ago, Hakuryuho said:

If he somehow achieves this, I think they need to call him something different than "dai-yokozuna" because that term wouldn't suffice anymore :-P:-D

There are two different Korean Hanja to denote "large".  大 is the kanji used in dai yokozuna.  It is very common.  太 is used for situations where the largeness is even more substantial or unimaginably large.  I don't know the Japanese pronunciation for this, but the Korean difference is "dae" for the former and "tae" for the latter.  Perhaps we should go with "tai-yokozuna"  :)

 

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Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Yangnomazuma said:

There are two different Korean Hanja to denote "large".  大 is the kanji used in dai yokozuna.  It is very common.  太 is used for situations where the largeness is even more substantial or unimaginably large.  I don't know the Japanese pronunciation for this, but the Korean difference is "dae" for the former and "tae" for the latter.  Perhaps we should go with "tai-yokozuna"  :)

I've long thought the 30+ yusho trio, Taiho, Chiyonofuji and Hakuho, ought to be set apart from there mere 10+ fellows! There's a kind of linguistic precedent in ōdachi (大太刀) which is literally 'great greatsword' (ō tachi), so maybe ōdai-yokozuna?

Edited by RabidJohn

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Having looked at Enho's bout in slow motion three times, I definitely think he was robbed.

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Yangnomazuma said:

There are two different Korean Hanja to denote "large".  大 is the kanji used in dai yokozuna.  It is very common.  太 is used for situations where the largeness is even more substantial or unimaginably large.  I don't know the Japanese pronunciation for this, but the Korean difference is "dae" for the former and "tae" for the latter.  Perhaps we should go with "tai-yokozuna"  :)

 

‘Tài’ is the Chinese reading and it means ‘too, excessive’ as an adverb (most common usage) or ‘the most .../the ... -est’ as an adjective (slightly less common).

Repeated it means ‘wife’: 太太

Edited by Eikokurai
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Alternatively, you could use 巨 somehow. 巨大 (kyodai) gigantic, 巨人 (kyojin) a giant (or titan, if you're attacking).

Just don't get it confused for kyoudai, or else he'd be your brother. (Wearingapaperbag...)

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23 minutes ago, Onibushou said:

Alternatively, you could use 巨 somehow. 巨大 (kyodai) gigantic, 巨人 (kyojin) a giant (or titan, if you're attacking).

Just don't get it confused for kyoudai, or else he'd be your brother. (Wearingapaperbag...)

Just as one shouldn’t confuse Shodai for the Chinese 手袋 or else he’d be a handbag.

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I believe sumo and japan need Yokozuna Asanoyama.

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So unfair...Enho is a chihuahua fighting mastiffs...The last thing he deserves is that kind of monoii...

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5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Enhou, losing to Takakeishou, but did he really lose? "I felt I was still in but I was overpowered by him from the start so nothing was good about my sumo. There still is a difference in power between me and the top guys. I hope to do better tomorrow!"

Did Takakeisho have anything to say to the press after his "good fortune"?

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If you missed it, I recommend watching Toyohibiki vs Kithaharima match.  

 

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14 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

If you missed it, I recommend watching Toyohibiki vs Kithaharima match. 

You mean because they finally got a mono-ii decision right?

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8 hours ago, ryafuji said:

From Joe Kuroda:

With two consecutive yusho, many – including Chiyonoyama himself – believed the promotion to yokozuna was imminent. However, at this basho, none of the three yokozuna were in top condition. Haguroyama had a 6 wins/4 losses/5 kyujo record, while Azumafuji ended with 6 wins/6 losses/3 kyujo and Terukuni had 2 wins, 2 losses and 11 kyujo. Pointing out Chiyonoyama’s 12-win record this basho, his shisho, Dewanoumi Oyakata took an unusual step by declining his rikishi’s yokozuna promotion: “We are grateful for the consideration, but I am not pleased at all with the 12-win yusho. As I firmly believe he is a man who could become a yokozuna in the very near future, I would like to decline the deliberation at this time”.

https://www.sumofanmag.com/content/Issue_4/Rikishi_of_Old.htm

Interestingly, a few basho later he got promoted with a 8-7, 14-1Y run.

This is one of many examples where sumo is governed by subjectivity rather than hard rules, which makes the sport interesting (or irritating at times).

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Another funny losing position by Enho ....

Terunofusi yusho or bust!

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"Please, I beg you while grabbing your leg!!!"

In South Asian culture, going down and grabbing somebody's leg is the extreme form of abasement, like prostration in some cultures. It is not done anymore, and the closest thing that can be commonly seen nowadays is touching an elder's feet with your fingers in India to show respect. "Grabbing somebody's leg" only exists as a relic in the language (or in some melodramatic scenes in Indian/Pakistani films). People use it when they are asking for something they need real bad. The western version would be "I am on my knees and begging you!". 

The only reason I mention this here is that Enho did a perfect demonstration of the an over-the-top leg-grab. I have never seen anyone go down like that on the dohyo. Love seeing that little fella trying all kinds of unorthodox stuff, and it is entertaining, regardless of whether his tricks work or not. 

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