Gaijingai

Sumo and American Football

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I bet rikishi make better linemen than goalies. Running backs might be a different matter...

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Posted (edited)

Well of course there's always been the comparison with linemen.  The more agile large sekitori would probably do well as offensive lineman, especially as pusher/thrusters.  Large lumbering rikishi would be better at interior defensive line, especially nose tackle, where they don't have to be mobile (many nose tackles have nicknames like "butter bean"  and "pork chop", so ... ).  I could see Ishiura as a running back.  Tochinoshin definitely a linebacker.

Both Akebono and Kakuryu excelled at basketball in high school, before putting on all that weight.

Edited by Yamanashi

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I figure a lineman can convert to a sumo wrestler faster than a sumo wrestler converting to a lineman.  

Akebono played football, but if I recall, basketball was his first sport.

Not sure how much of us are on this facebook group though I love this guy, Bum Day, in his four point stance, looking quite sumo-like.

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Musashimaru and Sentoryu played American football in H.S.  M passed up a college football scholarship to go to Japan.  S also wrestled, but hoped to go pro in FB; injured his knee Senior year of H.S.

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Posted (edited)

I bet Aoiyama would do well. Those nasty tsuppari of his aren't too far off from what D-linemen do to get around O-linemen. 

Edited by Churaumi

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44 minutes ago, Churaumi said:

I bet Aoiyama would do well. Those nasty tsuppari of his aren't too far off from what D-linemen do to get around O-linemen. 

An intriguing example of the difference in tactics between different sports is that in Sumo you're trying to knock the opponent over.  In US football, that's what the offensive lineman wants to do: either knock the opponent on the ground so he can't get to the running back, or knock him down so he can't get to the quarterback or bat a pass down [offensive linemen receive the highest grade for a "pancake block" where the defensive lineman is knocked back onto his ass].  The defensive lineman doesn't want to knock down the offensive lineman, because that doesn't gain him anything; he wants to get around the offensive lineman quickly so he can get to the runner or the quarterback.  The tsuppari that Big Dan uses would be just a set-up move to a Takakeisho-like sideways thrust that gets him past the O lineman.  Another tactic is what's called the "swim" move, which doesn't make any sense in the context of sumo.

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On 04/07/2020 at 03:33, Yamanashi said:

 Tochinoshin definitely a linebacker.

Height-wise sure, but I think it is necessary to add that he would definitely have to lose a tremendous amount of weight, since he weighs 62kg (137 lbs) more than the average LB in the NFL.

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2 minutes ago, Hakuho said:

Height-wise sure, but I think it is necessary to add that he would definitely have to lose a tremendous amount of weight, since he weighs 62kg (137 lbs) more than the average LB in the NFL.

Sure, but he's likely to lose a lot of weight once he doesn't need it for sumo (look at Kotooshu, who wasn't too porky as an Ozeki (Osh...), but still slimmed down a lot after sumo); I'm just not sure whether Toch could pass the NFL substance test.B-)

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

An intriguing example of the difference in tactics between different sports is that in Sumo you're trying to knock the opponent over.  In US football, that's what the offensive lineman wants to do: either knock the opponent on the ground so he can't get to the running back, or knock him down so he can't get to the quarterback or bat a pass down [offensive linemen receive the highest grade for a "pancake block" where the defensive lineman is knocked back onto his ass].  The defensive lineman doesn't want to knock down the offensive lineman, because that doesn't gain him anything; he wants to get around the offensive lineman quickly so he can get to the runner or the quarterback.  The tsuppari that Big Dan uses would be just a set-up move to a Takakeisho-like sideways thrust that gets him past the O lineman.  Another tactic is what's called the "swim" move, which doesn't make any sense in the context of sumo.

Not that you'd know because I've never mentioned it, but I've been a defensive lineman at one point many years ago. I'm well aware. Those tsuppari aren't a whole lot different than what we were trained to do at my admittedly incredibly basic level of the game. On a pass rush there's only two ways to the quarterback-through an O-lineman or around him. We would tsuppari their face or pads to get them into a position where we could "swim" around them, bringing an arm up and over their shoulder and over their back (like a swimming stroke) to get leverage to push them behind and to the side, so my undersized body could try to find the quarterback. Aoiyama would fit well on either side, but he reminds me of the old school days and how our flailing bodies looked.

Edited by Churaumi
long blocks of text aren't my friend
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2 minutes ago, Churaumi said:

Not that you'd know because I've never mentioned it, but I've been a defensive lineman at one point many years ago. I'm well aware. Those tsuppari aren't a whole lot different than what we were trained to do at my admittedly incredibly basic level of the game. On a pass rush there's only two ways to the quarterback-through an O-lineman or around him. We would tsuppari their face or pads to get them into a position where we could "swim" around them, bringing an arm up and over their shoulder and over their back (like a swimming stroke) to get leverage to push them behind and to the side, as k my undersized body could try to find the quarterback. Aoiyama would fit well on either side, but he reminds me of the old school days and how our flailing bodies looked.

I know what you mean.  Aoiyama and Abi both remind me of a wind-up doll; you wind up the rubber band and let it go: "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr" go the arms.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Asojima said:

They seem to prefer devices that look like this.

Nice one :-D But serious. With Naruto and more recently Araiso going new ways, this questions isn't too far off. And there are versions with a torso dummy. Yes, chest-lending has some more aspects, but AFAIK there's no other device to simulate the pushing training on such a life-like level. One could even use it for training tsuppari.

Edited by Benihana

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18 minutes ago, Benihana said:

Nice one :-D But serious. With Naruto and more recently Araiso going new ways, this questions isn't too far off. And there are versions with a torso dummy. Yes, chest-lending has some more aspects, but AFAIK there's no other device to simulate the pushing training on such a life-like level. One could even use it for training tsuppari.

As I've mentioned before, the blocking sleds you've displayed take the role of a butsugari without the opponent.  On our college campus you can see two or three of these, each with a post for adding weights to make the resistance greater.  You'll also notice the 5-man sled, which is used for the entire offensive line (left tackle, left guard, center, RG, RT).  Not only are there posts for adding weights, but invariably the offensive line coach will hop on to yell at motivate the linemen.  Imagine Hakuho taking butsugari with Miyagino Oyakata hanging on his back telling the poor lower-ranker to get his sh*t together!

I remember seeing a Twitter photo at Naruto heya when they were at their first lodgings.  They were flipping over the huge truck tire, which is another popular training method in US football as well as strongman events.

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Sumo Hall of Fame? 

Yes please.

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On 11/07/2020 at 02:23, Churaumi said:

Sumo Hall of Fame? 

Yes please.

I'd be more interested in a Sumo Forum Hall of Fame. :-)

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3 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

I'd be more interested in a Sumo Forum Hall of Fame. :-)

So, do you want your photo or your avatar on the plaque?

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2 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

So, do you want your photo or your avatar on the plaque?

Neither. I just want a place to bow to Jonosuke, Kintamayama and Akinomaki.

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3 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Neither. I just want a place to bow to Jonosuke, Kintamayama and Akinomaki.

Your humility is noted, but you belong there, too!  As do others.

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