Chanko Thief

Favorite Yokozuna? Past And Present

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I only choose from those i've seen on TV since the 90s, and my favourite is Harumafuji. I go with @sumojoann. Without Hakuho he'd have been good for at least 20+ yusho. He had 9 under Hakuho's reign, which is an incredible feat. If he'd been still around by now, he'd have at least 2 more.

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18 hours ago, Millwood said:

Chiyonofuji - who else competes?

He didn't win his first yusho until well into his career and then went on to win thirty more. Considering that he was the most athletic rikishi I ever saw, I agree completely wth that statment. 

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17 minutes ago, Kotoroiwa said:

Kotozakura… for reasons.

I’m curious....

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29 minutes ago, Kotoroiwa said:

Kotozakura… for reasons.

It was his day 13 4th loss in Kyushu 1973 that guaranteed Wajima the yusho and allowed him to go kyujo with his injured hand and still get the cup.  ;-)

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Chiyonofuji for me too. I was lucky enough to be living in Japan when he won his final yusho in November 1990 and remember the excitement it generated. At 127Kg he must also surely be one of the lightest of modern day yokozunae, and his technique was super.

 

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6 hours ago, Getayukata said:

Chiyonofuji for me too. I was lucky enough to be living in Japan when he won his final yusho in November 1990 and remember the excitement it generated. At 127Kg he must also surely be one of the lightest of modern day yokozunae, and his technique was super.

Chiyonofuji made a huge impression on me when I first started watching sumo and he remains my favourite. He was only 115kg when promoted in 1981, btw, and struggled to add that extra 12kg over the 10 years of his tenure.

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What happened that he was so disliked in the Kyokai to never rise to any position of executive decision-making?

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People are often disliked for their personality rather than for something they do. Perhaps he was arrogant?

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2 hours ago, Otokonoyama said:

What happened that he was so disliked in the Kyokai to never rise to any position of executive decision-making?

I suspect there was a lot of jealousy from some (Asahifuji seems a likely suspect) concerning Chiyonofuji's considerable achevements.

 

The likes of ex-Itai and his cronies stirred up nonsensical stories about yaocho-bouts,  It has been pointed out that people like Itai spouted these stories for 2 reasons:

 

1 - grievances against the Kyokai in general

2 - financial difficulties so selling scandal to the press lifts the pressure.

 

So many memories of Chiyonofuji stand out - his bout with Onokuni in March 1989, he still had so much desire/determination to win that he dislocated his shoulder toppling Onokuni.  His nage technique was the best I ever seen, among many brilliant throws was one over Tochinowaka in May 1988 when he lifted him clean off his feet.  Tsuridashi wins against Futahaguro and Mitoizumi in 1987 & 1989 respectively, the tsuriotoshi win against Terao in November 1989.

 

For me, he has no equal.

 

Swami

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7 hours ago, Otokonoyama said:

What happened that he was so disliked in the Kyokai to never rise to any position of executive decision-making?

This is a trick question, isn´t it ?

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I don't know anything about the Chiyonofuji/Kyokai matter, but wasn't he from the same heya as Hokutoumi/Hakkaku, current chairman of the NSK?  How was their relationship?

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Everything indicates that Chiyonofuji and Hokutoumi got on absolutely fine, certainly Hakkaku's tributes to Chiyonofuji at the time of his death seemed to be completely genuine.

 

Swami

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Otokonoyama said:

What happened that he was so disliked in the Kyokai to never rise to any position of executive decision-making?

Er, he did... I not saying there weren't factions that disliked him, but Kokonoe-oyakata was a director from 2008-2011 when he retired due to one of his rikishi admitting to match-fixing. He was back on the board from 2012-14 as operations director, which is an executive position as far as I'm aware. He cited lack of support as his reason for not running for re-election after that.

Edited by RabidJohn

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There seems to be a lot of love for Chiyonofuji out there so I thought I would post this awesome highlight of his 53 bout win streak. Credit to YouTube account bobbooty for uploading.

 

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Monday 1 June would have been Chiyonofuji's 65th birthday, even allowing for the risks we all know that are associated with sumo, I never in my wildest dreams thought he would be dead by this time.

It was true he cited lack of support for not going for re-election in 2014 but I'm wondering whether or not health issues were a more significant factor in reaching this decision.

 

Swami

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6 hours ago, RabidJohn said:

Er, he did... I not saying there weren't factions that disliked him, but Kokonoe-oyakata was a director from 2008-2011 when he retired due to one of his rikishi admitting to match-fixing. He was back on the board from 2012-14 as operations director, which is an executive position as far as I'm aware. He cited lack of support as his reason for not running for re-election after that.

You make a good point. It seems he was the best sumotori to come out of his stable, and Hakkaku (the former Hokutoumi) is the best administrator.

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I can’t seem to narrow down my list any further, but some of my favorites (in no particular order) are:

Oonokuni

Hakuho

Kitanoumi

Takanosato

Some honorable mentions: Akebono, Asashoryu, Chiyonofuji, and Musashimaru

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I've looked at the matches suggested, and checked out some bouts from Konishiki, Chiyonofuji, Taka and Waka, Akebono, etc.  The best I've seen are Chiyonofuji and Hakuho.

The Hawaiians relied on a huge weight advantage, though Akebono had a manic side to him, too.  Most of the others were big guys who could do standard sumo. Chiyonofuji and Hakuho have the strength, the speed, and the instincts above the others.  The bouts between Chiyonofuji and Terao: my god! After watching those bouts everybody else looks like they were performing underwater.  Hakuho still has some speed and strength, but also a kimarite encyclopedia in his head; I think he's doing 4-D chess while his opponents are playing Go.

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Chiyonofuji's technique was far superior to Hakuho's, on a different level completely.

 

I remember him beating Asahifuji by kimedashi in November 1987, completely lifting him off his feet.  In January that year he beat Ozutsu by amiuchi, which again was spectacular.

 

Swami

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Hakuho would be my second choice after Chiyonofuji. I prefer the lighter fighters as I find they have the more interesting belt battles. What has struck me particularly watching some of the old film of rikishi from 30+ years ago, is how many more really heavy rikishi there are these days compared to back then. I do not think this trend improves the sumo.

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Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the average weight in Makunouchi at the moment is somewhere around the 165kg mark, up 25kg or so from 30/35 years ago.

As a result techniques like utchari are becoming a thing of the past.

On the other hand Kitanoumi was one of the heaviest rikishi of his day and had many great belt battles notably with Wajima.

Hakuho just doesn't do it for me, I'm afraid, I really think he is overrated.  I would rank him at best around the likes of Takanohana, but consider Taiho, Kitanoumi, Chiyonofuji and Wajima all superior Yokozuna.

Swami

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5 hours ago, Getayukata said:

Hakuho would be my second choice after Chiyonofuji. I prefer the lighter fighters as I find they have the more interesting belt battles. What has struck me particularly watching some of the old film of rikishi from 30+ years ago, is how many more really heavy rikishi there are these days compared to back then. I do not think this trend improves the sumo.

Agreed, I don’t think this trend helps sumo at all. Not only the extra weight but as I watch more and more sumo from the past, i can’t help but notice that the musculature of the rikishi has gone down dramatically as well.

All the way up to the 90’s and maybe even the early 2000’s, it seems that rikishi had a lot more muscle mass, especially in their arms. You don’t usually see that kind of build/definition anymore.

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The emphasis is now on pushme-pullyou sumo rather than lifts and throws.  It may be the result of the arrival of the pacific islanders.  I think it is because the oyakata are lazy and are taking the easy way out on training.

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18 minutes ago, Chanko Thief said:

All the way up to the 90’s and maybe even the early 2000’s, it seems that rikishi had a lot more muscle mass, especially in their arms. You don’t usually see that kind of build/definition anymore.

That's hard to tell--underneath the fat, how much muscle is on someone like Aoiyama?  You can see the huge traps on a lot of the bigger guys, for instance.  

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