Asashosakari

Promotion/Demotion and Yusho discussion Haru 2020

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10 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

But Takakeisho wasn’t promoted prematurely. He got 34/45 wins in junior sanyaku. Actually, he managed to hit the usual target twice. No leniency was shown to him. His promotion was deserved without question. 

His promotion was ok, but after that he only managed one kachikochi. 

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4 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

His promotion was ok, but after that he only managed one kachikochi. 

Well, firstly he suffered a pretty serious injury. Secondly, how someone performs after isn’t relevant to their promotion. Hindsight is always 20/20 as they say. Thirdly, how one rikishi performs shouldn’t have any effect on another’s promotion. The bar doesn’t get raised because the previous promotee was a let down.

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21 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

Sure, Takakeisho is already a big disappointment. But I have a feeling that Asanoyama will make a better ozeki than Takakeisho.

Outside of very obvious injury Takakeisho is 39-20 as Ozeki. 3 KKs and  a possible 4th tonight. 2 of those were double digit wins and one was a jun yusho where he lost a playoff for the yusho. What exactly have you been watching?

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4 minutes ago, Rocks said:

What exactly have you been watching?

Alas, the question that's on my mind about pretty much every sumo opinion that Dapeng decides to post.

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15 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Outside of very obvious injury Takakeisho is 39-20 as Ozeki. 3 KKs and  a possible 4th tonight. 2 of those were double digit wins and one was a jun yusho where he lost a playoff for the yusho. What exactly have you been watching?

To be pedantic, the jun-yusho basho was his Ozekiwake tournament.

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Posted (edited)

And before it's too late, the juryo yusho race through Day 14:

11-3 J6e Kotoshoho

10-4 J3e Terunofuji, J5e Kotoeko

9-5 J2w Wakatakakage, J4e Tobizaru, J8e Kyokutaisei, J8w Ichinojo, J12e Hakuyozan

A very juryo-like limp to the finish line with both leader and pursuer losing, both to opponents who were only 7-6 before the bouts (Kyokushuho and Akiseyama respectively). That has unexpectedly opened the yusho door for Terunofuji again after he defeated low-ranked division returnee Wakamotoharu. Hakuyozan had the opportunity as well, but lost for the second straight day (to Tobizaru this time) to squander what was a good shot at the championship at one point.

The yusho-deciding matchups, although things could be over after the first one of them:

J6e Kotoshoho (11-3)  - J13e Chiyonoumi (7-7)
J5e Kotoeko (10-4)    - J12e Hakuyozan (9-5)
J3e Terunofuji (10-4) - J14e Chiyootori (8-6)

Also, sandanme do-beya playoff between Ura and Nankairiki later. (I'll fill in the Day 13 results alongside that later.)

Edited by Asashosakari
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6 hours ago, Rocks said:

Outside of very obvious injury Takakeisho is 39-20 as Ozeki. 3 KKs and  a possible 4th tonight. 2 of those were double digit wins and one was a jun yusho where he lost a playoff for the yusho. What exactly have you been watching?

Well, until today his record as ozeki is one kachikoshi and two makekoshi and one kyujo. Not very good, isn't it? 

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6 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

Alas, the question that's on my mind about pretty much every sumo opinion that Dapeng decides to post.

21 wins in four bashos ... and may be demoted again in May ... 

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6 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

To be pedantic, the jun-yusho basho was his Ozekiwake tournament.

Ozekiwake is the proper title for him.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Dapeng said:

Well, until today his record as ozeki is one kachikoshi and two makekoshi and one kyujo. Not very good, isn't it? 

 

1 hour ago, Dapeng said:

21 wins in four bashos ... and may be demoted again in May ... 

 

1 hour ago, Dapeng said:

Ozekiwake is the proper title for him.

I think you're judging his Ozeki career far too soon. His first two basho at the rank were a write off because he suffered a horrific injury. Even the great Hakuho wouldn't have been able to compete with it, so to count it against Takakeisho is unfair. His next basho was a 12-3 yusho equivalent, fighting the same schedule he'd have fought as an Ozeki. Then he's had 9-6 and 11-4 kachikoshi (not one, as you claimed). This basho just finished was his first true makekoshi and it was as borderline as you can get. So five basho into his Ozeki career, he's had: two perfectly acceptable kyujos, two healthy KKs and one narrow MK. To qualify for the rank he managed to meet the entirely objective numerical target not once, but twice, winning a yusho on the way (and a jun-yusho). The Kyokai could hardly say "Sorry, but for you we're going to change the rules because we've just got a feeling you might be a bit mediocre in the future." That's not how it works. He did what he needed to do to make Ozeki and as an Ozeki he's doing fine so far. Time will tell if he becomes a mainstay or even pushes on, but for now he's doing his job.

Edited by Eikokurai
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I am not sure the kyokai sees the lack of ozeki as a problem. They have two yokozuna, so the requirement for minimal number of 2 ozekis is fulfilled.

The real question here is : if a yokozuna wants to fill out intai papers, can they deny him the retirement? If so, no problem (I guess)

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

 

I think you're judging his Ozeki career far too soon. His first two basho at the rank were a write off because he suffered a horrific injury. Even the great Hakuho wouldn't have been able to compete with it, so to count it against Takakeisho is unfair. His next basho was a 12-3 yusho equivalent, fighting the same schedule he'd have fought as an Ozeki. Then he's had 9-6 and 11-4 kachikoshi. This basho just finished was his first true makekoshi and it was as borderline as you can get. So five basho into his Ozeki career, he's had: two entirely acceptable kyujos, two healthy KKs and one narrow MK. To qualify for the rank he managed to meet the entirely objective numerical target not once, but twice. The Kyokai could hardly say "Sorry, but for you we're going to change the rules because we've just got a feeling you might be a bit mediocre in the future." That's not how it works. He did what he needed to do to make Ozeki and as an Ozeki he's doing fine so far. Time will tell if he becomes a mainstay or even pushes on, but for now he's doing his job.

I made a mistake when I counted his bashos. May be still too early to say he is a poor ozeki, but technically he is one-skilled and vulnerable after being forced into yotsu. His body-built determined and it's hard for him to improve. The upper ranks already learnt how to deal with him. Also, if a rikishi is prone to injury, it usually means he is already at his extreme in maintaining his rank. He can be OK even good at low sanyaku but will keep struggling to maintain his ozeki rank. On the other hand, Asanoyama looks more promising and I predict he will be the next yokozuna.

 

Edited by Dapeng

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Just now, Dapeng said:

I made a mistake when I counted his bashos. May be still too early to say he is a poor ozeki, but technically he is one-skilled and vulnerable after being forced into yotsu. His body-built determined and it's hard for him to improve. The upper ranks already learnt how to deal with him. Also, if a rikishi is prone to injury, it usually means he is already at his extreme in maintaining his rank. He can be OK even good at low sanyaku but will keep struggling to maintain his ozeki rank. On the other hand, Asanoyama looks more promising and I predict he will be the next yokozuna.

 

This I can broadly agree with. I called Asanoyama as a future Yokozuna and his trajectory continues to look promising.

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I guess the bottom of makuuchi will also be crowded with Sadogatake rikishi.

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1 hour ago, Nantonoyama said:

The real question here is : if a yokozuna wants to fill out intai papers, can they deny him the retirement? If so, no problem (I guess)

In the past, I believe their have been cases where the kyokai seems to have encouraged Yokozuna to hold off on retiring. It seems like that was mentioned in Sumo World magazine. Of course I am talking about really old issues of the magazine. 

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Posted (edited)

Is there any word as to how Chiyomaru's forced kyujo is going to be handled?  7-8, 7-6, 7-5?  I wasn't following closely to know how much of it was forced, nor do I know if anyone else was forced to withdraw in the same way for which they'd have to make a similar decision.  Are we just going to have to guess (the banzuke)?

Edited by Gurowake

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5 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Is there any word as to how Chiyomaru's forced kyujo is going to be handled?  7-8, 7-6, 7-5?  I wasn't following closely to know how much of it was forced, nor do I know if anyone else was forced to withdraw in the same way for which they'd have to make a similar decision.  Are we just going to have to guess (the banzuke)?

I would say since the rules were clear from the beginning of the tournament, they will treat him as a regular 7-8. Perhaps indulging him to stay at his current rank like it sometimes happens when a rikishi is 7-8. I agree it is unfair and it probably costed him the kachi-koshi in the end, but the rules were the same for everyone

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Posted (edited)
40 minutes ago, Tenshinhan said:

I guess the bottom of makuuchi will also be crowded with Sadogatake rikishi.

Yup, could be 5 of them, and it means that they'll be in the unenviable position to be forced to fight higher ranked rikishi than those around them in rank.  Maybe they'll be preferentially selected to exchange matches to balance this out?  As it stands, they'll have 4 additional matches outside the bottom ten rikishi (who generally all meet) compared to the 5 other rikishi in the area.

Edited by Gurowake

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3 hours ago, Tenshinhan said:

I guess the bottom of makuuchi will also be crowded with Sadogatake rikishi.

Looks that way: I've got Shogiku, noWaka, Shoho, Eko and Yuki ranked from m13 to m17 on my first take. (I am too lazy to type "Koto" five times, although this explanation requires more keystrokes which is just stupid when you think about it).

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5 hours ago, Nantonoyama said:

I am not sure the kyokai sees the lack of ozeki as a problem. They have two yokozuna, so the requirement for minimal number of 2 ozekis is fulfilled.

I disagree, I’m sure they think having only one ozeki is highly unsatisfactory and they will be very keen to promote another as soon as possible. That’s why the 33 wins standard is loosened when there are fewer ozeki. 

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22 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Looks that way: I've got Shogiku, noWaka, Shoho, Eko and Yuki ranked from m13 to m17 on my first take. (I am too lazy to type "Koto" five times, although this explanation requires more keystrokes which is just stupid when you think about it).

Is young Kotonowaka going to be heyagashira after just one makuuchi appearance?

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1 minute ago, RabidJohn said:

Is young Kotonowaka going to be heyagashira after just one makuuchi appearance?

Possibly, I have him just behind Kotoshogiku but my GTB skills are very limited and The Kid might get the nod over The Man. (Steve McQueen fan in the house)

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There are only five clear demotions from makuuchi and six - 7 if you count Chiyoshoma - very promotable rikishi in Juryo. Who will be the unlucky sixth? I guess Takayasu will certainly stay in Makuuchi?

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6 minutes ago, Gooner said:

There are only five clear demotions from makuuchi and six - 7 if you count Chiyoshoma - very promotable rikishi in Juryo. Who will be the unlucky sixth? I guess Takayasu will certainly stay in Makuuchi?

At 8-7 from J2, I do not count Chiyoshoma as a promotion possibility.

I expect Takayasu to remain in Makuuchi; the recent precedent of Kotoyuki and Tomokaze to J1 from M3 makes me fairly certain that at his current M1 he should be safe. As to who's the unlucky sixth, your guess is as good as (or better than) mine, but I'll guess Tobizaru or Kotoeko would have to be the most likely to get stuck.

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