Haru 2020 Basho Discussion (SPOILERS)

[Benihana 1,937]

I wonder about the 44 and the common superstition in sumo. AFAIK the "shi" for 4 is the same as for "death" and japanese try to avoid it, for example taking 2x2 sips in tea ceremony instead of 4. Now Hakuho has "double-death" yusho... Is there something to it, or is it just gaijin prejudice?

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

I was very impressed with the way Kiribayama finished the basho with five straight wins after looking booked for a mk after day 10. He has a really smooth style, never wasting an ounce of effort and it will be good to see him playing with the big boys at M4 if we get a Natsu basho. Mongolian, on the small side but solidly built,  likes to attack from an angle, has a shikona which suggests horses on mountains, technically excellent... 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

10 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

20 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Is that a highly formulaic oral resignation unique to oozumo?  Whatever it is, I bet Shikimori Inosuke 41 must be tired of having to say it, as Hakkaku must be tired of saying "be careful from now on".

"Here we go again..."

"Must we?"

"It's customary!"

"Oh, bother..."

"Do we have to?"

"God's sake, no!"

(feel free to determine who is who)

Sounds more like conversations I have with my wife... 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

2 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I was very impressed with the way Kiribayama finished the basho with five straight wins after looking booked for a mk after day 10. He has a really smooth style, never wasting an ounce of effort and it will be good to see him playing with the big boys at M4 if we get a Natsu basho. Mongolian, on the small side but solidly built,  likes to attack from an angle, has a shikona which suggests horses on mountains, technically excellent... 

I'm sticking with my prediction last tournament that Kiribayama will be 2020's Top Division Rookie of the Year.  Although, I have to admit, Kotonowaka will make that contest interesting.

[Catalin B 13]

A few Juryo thoughts:
- What a second week for Akiseyama! Happy to see him stick around.
- A bit harsh on J13 Chiyonoumi to have to face yusho frontrunner Kotoshoho on the last day for his potential KK?
- My expectations were already low for the match between Hidenoumi and Yago, two guys I really like, but this was a real downer, Hidenoumi just allowing Yago to fall into a sea of sadness.

Makuuchi was really fun. Kakuryu was looking calm and I was hoping he could deliver the upset - it wasn't to be. I hope we have Natsu, in any form that may be.

[Wasabeefu 17]

Not at bad basho at all. Day 13 and 14 had some good matches, the Aoiyama "situation" worked itself out, and the finale between Hakuho and Kakuryu did not disappoint. Asanoyama was very close against both yokozunae and beat all of the other sanyaku, so promotion to ozeki seems justifiable. Overall, pretty decent.

[Rocks 1,809]

1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

I'm still sticking to my to my four-months-old opinion that nobody around here could actually know what's troubling him, either physically or mentally, especially in the current situation of Corona Basho. Having a bad basho doesn't always need an obvious explanation.

I would agree. I do not understand what all the kvetching is about Takakeisho this basho. I think he is over the injury and it effects him about as much as an injury effects anyone else. After all you are never really the same again after a big injury. It's how you deal with it which in his case seems to be fine.

Takakeisho was 1 win from a KK. Did he look lousy? Sure. But if you look at  his career prior to the run up to Ozeki he had a tendency to go 2 basho on and 1 off. This, and his 1 dimensional sumo,  are the main reasons I thought he would never be Ozeki. He also has come back quickly from injury. Since coming back from this latest injury he went 3 basho before  a poor one, which is actually an improvement.

Is the 1 dimensional sumo holding him back? You bet it is. He won't win a Yusho in a basho which has both Yokozuna in it till the end. But that 1 dimension is still strong enough that I do not see any other rikishi beating him on a regular basis any time soon. People have had him figured out for a long time now. They just can't handle his thrusts.

I expect him to come back strong in May, if there is one, and KK at the very least. Most likely contend for the yusho. Especially given the high likelihood at least 1 if not both the Yokozuna will not show up for May regardless.

[Wasabeefu 17]

20 hours ago, Katooshu said:

Agreed, and I'm baffled that people can watch that and think that Kak was 'dead' in the situation. He has a double inside grip and is still exerting force, which is why the turning motion of Asa's throw gets arrested about halfway, Asa starts to fall with Kak, and Asa ends up touching down first.

I'm a day late and dollar short on this one, but my thought at the time was that Kakuryu was willing to do anything for the win, even potentially go face first into the cement floor, while Asanoyama flinched at the last moment and put his arm down. Losing the game of chicken could be the difference between yokozuna and ozeki!

Edited March 22, 2020 by Wasabeefu

[Sakura 1,495]

Talking of sounds. Did anyone else catch the painful sounding creaking of Tochiozan's knees?

[Amamaniac 2,079]

1 hour ago, Sakura said:

Talking of sounds. Did anyone else catch the painful sounding creaking of Tochiozan's knees?

No, but I did hear his inner wail of despair!  

[Dapeng 236]

2 hours ago, Benihana said:

I wonder about the 44 and the common superstition in sumo. AFAIK the "shi" for 4 is the same as for "death" and japanese try to avoid it, for example taking 2x2 sips in tea ceremony instead of 4. Now Hakuho has "double-death" yusho... Is there something to it, or is it just gaijin prejudice?

Double deaths mean live, like double negatives are positive. Also, he will use all he has to add 7 more yushos to eliminate any "4" in his yusho numbers.

[Dapeng 236]

2 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Is that a highly formulaic oral resignation unique to oozumo?  Whatever it is, I bet Shikimori Inosuke 41 must be tired of having to say it, as Hakkaku must be tired of saying "be careful from now on".

I think the black coats sitting around the clay stage are a recent thing, but the pretended resignation after a mistake was an old tradition when there was no black coats thus his mistake was much more serious. 

[RabidJohn 1,855]

1 hour ago, Dapeng said:

Also, he will use all he has to add 7 more yushos to eliminate any "4" in his yusho numbers.

I hope that's a typo... 44+6=50.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

1 hour ago, Dapeng said:

I think the black coats sitting around the clay stage are a recent thing, but the pretended resignation after a mistake was an old tradition when there was no black coats thus his mistake was much more serious. 

I guess that is why the tanto dagger is still worn by tate-gyoji... 

Speaking of the threat of seppuku for making the wrong call, wouldn't oozumo be more interesting if it followed yakuza tradition rather than samurai tradition?  Just imagine having to cut a finger off for every sashichigae?  Perhaps then the current Shikimori Inosuke would do a better job...

Edited March 22, 2020 by Amamaniac

[Yamanashi 3,904]

19 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I guess that is why the tanto dagger is still worn by tate-gyoji... 

Speaking of the threat of seppuku for making the wrong call, wouldn't oozumo be more interesting if it followed yakuza tradition rather than samurai tradition?  Just imagine having to cut a finger off for every sashichigae?  Perhaps then the current Shikimori Inosuke would do a better job...

Either that or he'd be referred to as "Old Stumpy".

[robnplunder 976]

From my vantage point, Takakeisho in this basho showed his willingness to mix things up instead of sticking with his one-dimensional attack.  Whether that was done intentionally or not, IMO, it led to his MK.  I am hoping he was doing this intentionally to improve his game, to get to the next level.   He will go KK in the next basho.  I swear on my dead dog's grave.

[Jabbamaru 167]

Hakuhō kampaaaaai
What a privilege to see the goat in action! Another day another dai zuna yusho! omedetou Yokozuna!

Fouty freaking four!

[Katsunorifuji 65]

Overall a pretty good basho and with two Yokozuna battling for the yusho on day 15 a pretty traditional ending. 
 

Takakeisho just seemed off. A big step down from January not just in his record but in his performance too. He wasn’t pushing as hard and let his opponents get inside too fast. I know he’s one dimensional, but he is so strong in that dimension that he’s still usually one of the best out there. Maybe he aggravated his injury late in the last basho (when he lost to Tokushoryu?) or in practice but a very noticeable change. Hope he bounces back fast for May!

Same hope for Hokutofuji who also struggled after a very nice performance in January. It’ll be nice if he can come back with a double digit win record next time around. 

[Ichimawashi 573]

Someone needs to make this video: Outdoor scene with Hakkaku's daughter preparing to get married.  Large crowd of sumo personalities.  Japanese music and dancing.  Yobidashi distribute sanitizer and keep people from getting too close.  Inside, Hakkaku's head advisor (casting suggests Kisenosato or Aminishiki for this part) is sending rikishi into his darkened office one by one, separating the line so nobody is too close.  Outside, the tate-gyoji practices a speech; people nearby try not to stare.  Inside, the last rikishi in the line finally goes into the office:

Asanoyama: "I won a yusho and had to shake Donald Trump's hand.  I put my elbow out in a winning position to avoid injuring your precious aging yokozuna-ozeki and for my troubles I get a mono-ii and I take the loss!  Now I am one short of ozeki promotion.  What can I do?  What can I do?"

Hakkaku (face slaps Asanoyama): "You can be a MAN!  (pause)  33 wins is not a hard and fast rule.  I will see if I can convince the committee that we need a second ozeki.  Now go!"

(Asanoyama bows and leaves.  Enter Advisor.)

Hakkaku: "anyone else I need to see?"

Advisor: "the tate-gyoji is here.  He wants to resign again."

Hakkaku: "we did this yesterday.  (sighs)  Send him in."

(Enter tate-gyoji)

Tate-gyoji: "Wi-hith the uh-hutmohost deheferehence, I wahant tohoo --" (stops abruptly as Hakakku raises his hand)

Hakkaku: "We did this yesterday.  I remind you that this is my daughter's wedding day and I am by tradition supposed to grant any wish made of me in this office on this day.  Are you sure this is what you want to do?  (Tate-gyoji's eyes bulge, he shakes head slowly after some thought.)  I thought not.  By the way, could we take it back a gear or two on the extra syllables?  Huhakuhooho and Kahakuryuhoo was what you announced yesterday.before the big match.  Talk to Konosuke, he knows people who can help you with speech problems.  Now go.  Enjoy.  Try to look happy."

(I'm thinking Takanohana as the Al Pacino stand-in here, but maybe that might be a bit too far....)

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

10 hours ago, Dapeng said:

I think the black coats sitting around the clay stage are a recent thing, but the pretended resignation after a mistake was an old tradition when there was no black coats thus his mistake was much more serious. 

How recent are you talking?

[Yamanashi 3,904]

8 minutes ago, Ichimawashi said:

I'm thinking Takanohana as the Al Pacino stand-in here, but maybe that might be a bit too far....)

Intriguing idea ... I'm thinking Chiyomaru as Clemenza, Shodai as Fredo.

[Kintamayama 45,527]

The relations between the two NHK commentators Kitanofuji and Mainoumi have been strained for quite some time, as Kitanofuji has been having a go at Mainoumi recently. Senshuraku was no different. On the Ozeki promotion criteria this time: "We've had rikishi promoted with 28 wins in three bashos who later went on to become Yokozuna, like Mr. Kitanofuji. I'd like the powers that be to treat Asanoyama in this manner," said Mainoumi, asking to disregard the '33 wins over three bashos" thingy. "If you say stuff like that, we're done!!" snapped Kitanofuji on air. "Maybe it's better you don't say things like that," added Osaka announcer, the NHK guy. Good thing I wasn't there.

[Rainoyama 1,157]

37 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

The relations between the two NHK commentators Kitanofuji and Mainoumi have been strained for quite some time, as Kitanofuji has been having a go at Mainoumi recently. Senshuraku was no different. On the Ozeki promotion criteria this time: "We've had rikishi promoted with 28 wins in three bashos who later went on to become Yokozuna, like Mr. Kitanofuji. I'd like the powers that be to treat Asanoyama in this manner," said Mainoumi, asking to disregard the '33 wins over three bashos" thingy. "If you say stuff like that, we're done!!" snapped Kitanofuji on air. "Maybe it's better you don't say things like that," added Osaka announcer, the NHK guy. Good thing I wasn't there.

I was quite surprised when it happened, if I remember correctly Kitanofuji even called Mainoumi　君　(きみ)　which I thought was a bit weird even for him. I understand better now thank you.

[Kintamayama 45,527]

8 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

I was quite surprised when it happened, if I remember correctly Kitanofuji even called Mainoumi　君　(きみ)　which I thought was a bit weird even for him. I understand better now thank you.

Indeed, kimi it was.

[Kaninoyama 1,818]

35 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

I was quite surprised when it happened, if I remember correctly Kitanofuji even called Mainoumi　君　(きみ)　which I thought was a bit weird even for him. I understand better now thank you.

Are we sure it wasn't just jovial back-and-forth banter? I wasn't paying attention when this exchange happened; just wondering.