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Haru 2020 Basho Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Asanoyama wasn't seasoned enough to avoid putting his arm out to brace while Kakuryu went into that dive with both hands on his opponent's belt, trusting in shinto spirits and his little acorn bob to prevent severe trauma. Asanoyama was the aggressor up to that point. But in the final moments, it was clearly Kakuryu in control. 

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Posted (edited)

Day 14 rikishi babble:

Midorifuji, makekoshi in his first Juryo basho: "Juryo guys are strong. I'll train more and gambarize next basho!"

Terunofuji, 10 wins and sure to get re-promoted to Makuuchi after 14 bashos: "From the beginning of this year, I decided to be back in Makuuchi  by the start of the Olympics. I'll be thrilled if I can get the Juryo yusho.."

Kotonowaka, kachikoshi in his first Makuuchi basho: "I can only do my best. I wanted to break out of the rut (three straight losses). (Both his grandfather ex-Yokozuna Kotozakura and his father ex-Sekiwake Kotonowaka were makekoshi in their debut bashos) I wasn't aware of that too much. I spent more time in Juryo than my father.. All the sekitori of the heya motivated  each other. I still have to move upwards. I'd like to brace myself for the future."

Kotoshougiku,  about his heyamate and new Makuuchi Kotonowaka getting his kachikoshi: "It's his first Makuuchi basho. It's my 90th.. I'll advise him not to stop gambarizing.."

Terutsuyoshi, local boy and kachikoshi: "I really wanted the spectators to see me, but there really is nothing I can do about it. If they were able to be happy watching on TV, that's fine by me.."

Yutakayama, 2 consecutive losses and now 7-7: " After starting 2-5 I got to a place (7-5)  where my kachikoshi was in striking distance and that gave me confidence. I want to refresh my feeling and mount the dohyo tomorrow!"

Kiribayama, his second Makuuchi basho and kachikoshi again: "It's great. I'm doing sumo while thinking on a daily basis."

Daieishou, kachikoshi at Maegashira 1, will be back in sanyaku in May: "I was able to attack relentlessly. I had back to back losses so I'm happy with my kachikoshi.. I want to end it well to seal my promotion!"

Kagayaki, back to back losses and kachikoshi up for grabs on senshuraku: "From the beginning my upper body was too high so there really isn't anything to say. I'd like to do sumo that can be connected to the next day."

Aoiyama, disappointed that he couldn't hold on to his lead: "The quality was not bad, but I lost.. I really don't know what to say.."

Takanoshou, beating Mitakeumi in the battle of the 3-loss rikishi: "I'm thrilled. it has boosted my confidence and i will take advantage of it. I was able to attack quickly. I hope the 11 wins will lead to the next basho."

Mitakeumi : "I really wasn't aware of that.. (that they were both with three losses)"

Takakeishou, 7-7 facing senshuraku: "I am not thinking about the win/loss thing. I'll be happy to bring to the dohyo what I brought these last 14 days."

Asanoyama, losing to Kakuryuu: " i have to start anew. I have to start anew..I have no regrets. It's a sport where the win/loss is clear. I accept the decision of the monoii that was called to clarify things.. I can only give it all I have!"

Sakaigawa-Judging director on Asanoyama: "i think he has the power. The content has been good since day 1.   He went head first against all his opponents and that's great. He made a good impression. I wonder how the bout against Takakeishou will go tomorrow. Will we have a reason to discuss the promotion? Will we count the numbers?"

Kakuryuu, facing Hakuhou tomorrow for the yusho, beats Asanoyama today: "I was able to see my opponent well today, so it was all good, I think.  The throw came naturally. Last year in Aki I lost to him because I was in a hurry. Today I took my time. I hadn't realize that I have been a wall to the up and coming young stars these last two days. I've come this far, so I have to take that last step tomorrow towards my seventh yusho.."

Edited by Kintamayama
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16 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

Anyone notice the Akua shinpan bump in Juryo?

[...]

Man With Two Sticks. If anyone knows what this job is called...let me know.

 

That is the gyoji. The shinpan are the men in black that stand up when one of them calls a mono-ii

And the two-sticked guy is a yobidashi (he is Daikichi from Azumazeki beya)

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18 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

Ishiura breaking the dohyo, and the dohyo being sprayed with water so it'll...grow back? (Last Tuesday)

My guess: it was being disinfected! [The bottle says "Hypo..." something]

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18 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Sakaigawa-Judging director on Asanoyama: "i think he has the power. The content has been good since day 1.   He went head first against all his opponents and that's great. He made a good impression. I wonder how the bout against Takakeishou will go tomorrow. Will we have a reason to discuss the promotion? Will we count the numbers?"

This is a very interesting tidbit. Am I wrong to be reading this as Asanoyama potentially getting promoted if he wins versus Takakeisho tomorrow? I’d be surprised if they decide to promote him under the circumstances, but I suppose weirder things have happened. One thing is clear, however...Asanoyama has looked quite excellent despite the recent set of losses. 

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3 minutes ago, Michishige said:

Am I wrong to be reading this as Asanoyama potentially getting promoted if he wins versus Takakeisho tomorrow?

In that case there would a weird kind of pressure on Takakeisho to rather go kadoban than to force another banzuke without two proper Ozekis.

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45 minutes ago, dada78641 said:

Ishiura breaking the dohyo, and the dohyo being sprayed with water so it'll...grow back? (Last Tuesday)

 

Not grow, stabilize it till they can repair. Dohyo looks particularly dry this basho. I'm wondering if the lack of people has caused the humidity in the room to drop a lot resulting in the dohyo drying out faster than usual. The top looked particularly wet and slippy the other night. They may be trying to compensate. 

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Tough loss for Asanoyama as he was pwning Kakuru up till he touched down first.  Considering that I would have given the decision to Asanoyama. 

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Posted (edited)

I don't like that argument. Being able to turn the tables at the very last minute involves much skill and is a huge part of sumo, and the yokozuna level competitors are generally excellent at this. This isn't a sport like boxing, where rounds are scored on the overall competitiveness of the action; it is who touched down or went out first, and that means you can score legitimate wins whether you dominated the entire contest or were dominated for 99 percent of it.

The right call was to give it to Kak. He was not a passive participant, and was able to use the double inside grip and superior balance to his advantage. Helps not to stick your arm out too---you gotta take the fall Asa!

Shinitai? Not at all

Edited by Katooshu
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Gospodin said:

Dead body is called when a rikishi has absolutely no chance to turn the tables, usually when he is up in the air and on his way out of the ring, with no contact to his opponent. I cannot remember it being applied in a situation like that.

Agreed, and I'm baffled that people can watch that and think that Kak was 'dead' in the situation. He has a double inside grip and is still exerting force, which is why the turning motion of Asa's throw gets arrested about halfway, Asa starts to fall with Kak, and Asa ends up touching down first.

Edited by Katooshu
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1 hour ago, dada78641 said:

Man With Two Sticks. If anyone knows what this job is called...let me know.

The man is question is a yobidashi, and the "two sticks" are usually referred to as "wooden clappers" or hyōshigi, in Japanese.

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1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

My guess: it was being disinfected! [The bottle says "Hypo..." something]


Hypergreen, in fact.


356a898f3d84549217ded7564173492c_1024x.j

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5 hours ago, Ryoshishokunin said:

I mean, Enho's match a few days ago was exactly the case being discussed--Enho "lost his form" and so there was a torinaoshi.  By no means did the two touch simultanously.

Yes. Torinaoshi is actually a pretty common outcome when the guy who clearly touched down first was also the one driving the action. It's just inconsistently applied because it more or less comes down to: was the other rikishi "shinitai enough" to declare him an outright loser or not? There's definitely a desire on the part of at least some shimpan to avoid having a rikishi who looked clearly inferior getting the win on a technicality.

FWIW, I thought Asanoyama-Kakuryu should have gotten a rematch on those grounds.

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Amazing. What were the odds before the basho began, that both Yokozuna would even still be in the basho on senshuraku, never mind in a final battle for the yusho!?

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Hakuho is a master at mind games no two ways about it, Aoiyama seemed to be carrying some confidence but that was neutralized fast.

Very tough the Asanoyama-Kakuryu bout. At first I thought for sure that was Aso's win or at least a do-over, as he swung Kakuryu out, but the replays do show that Kak kept himself excellently in the air and Aso's arm hit first. 

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6 hours ago, Ryoshishokunin said:

I mean, Enho's match a few days ago was exactly the case being discussed--Enho "lost his form" and so there was a torinaoshi.  By no means did the two touch simultanously.

On that one, I thought it was close in live time, but the replay clearly showed Enho winning the first match. It was simply a bad call by the shinpan on the monoii, IMO.  They usually get it right, but everyone makes mistakes and it could be the crucial person's view was blocked. and that's why it was called torinaoshi. Fortunately, he was able to beat Daiesho twice. I think Enho has adjusted to the lack of audience, which bother him early on. At M-4 and the joi-jin he may need some new weapons to survive. Clearly dropping a bit in the next banzukie, when ever that may be.

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Posted (edited)

Even if one doesn't want to go with the assessment that Asanoyama deserved the benefit of the doubt as the attacker:

Kakuryu-Asanoyama.jpg


Both guys' feet completely off the ground, no other contact has been made yet. That's been ruled torinaoshi countless times before.

I'm a strong believer that it shouldn't be possible to win just because you were launched higher in the air than the other guy.

Edited by Asashosakari
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1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

So, the mystery continues! (I assume it's not sake).

To lighten the gloomy mood of this ghost basho, the sight of a few daisies around the tawara would have been really nice. :-)

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Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Joaoiyama said:

The shinpan are a little off, they didn't even see the replay to Takanosho vs Mitakeumi that clrealy showed Takanosho touching down first.

Good spot! (Signofapproval...)

I noticed that too (i.e., Takanosho's right hand drops out a split second before Mitakeumi's left foot drops in the corner).  I would place some blame on the gyoji, but as you say, the shimpan – especially those closest to the corner in question – were asleep on their zabuton.  However, the only way that they would have gotten the benefit of the replay is if they had called a monoii.  But they didn't...  

I hope that Mitakeumi's loss there does not cost him a Special Prize when this is all over.  He is very much eligible IMHO

Edited by Amamaniac
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Tate gyoji Shikimori Inosuke handed in his oral resignation again today- 4 sashichigaes (reversed call)  since being promoted to tate gyoji on January 2019.  Hakkaku oyakata, as is customary, declined to accept it. "I guess it was a close bout so it was difficult to determine which rikishi won, but I asked him to be careful  from now," said the rijicho, again.

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On 26/11/2017 at 22:49, Asashosakari said:
On 25/11/2017 at 15:41, Doitsuyama said:
On 25/11/2017 at 10:08, Jakusotsu said:

Looking at Endo's schedule on days 14 and 15 makes me wonder: how often has it happened before that one Maegashira had the first and the last bout on consecutive days?

Here are all such instances:

Goeido in Aki 2007, days 14 and 15 (like Endo against Hakuho on day 14, and guess who Hakuho's day 15 opponent is tomorrow?)

Takanosato in Nagoya 1980, days 13 and 14

Futagodake in Haru 1974, days 12 and 13 (the other way around with the first bout on day 12 and the last bout on the next day)

Futagodake's is particularly special in that he even faced a juryo opponent in the early bout.

Endo has joined him now in losing both matchups. Goeido and Takanosato came back to win their low-ranked match after losing to the yokozuna.

A near miss by Aoiyama this basho who is going from the second-last bout to the first one.

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Kakuryu wasn't shinitai. right call for sure. On the other hand Hoshoryu got robbed with that torinaoshi...

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8 hours ago, Kaminariyuki said:

Amazing. What were the odds before the basho began, that both Yokozuna would even still be in the basho on senshuraku, never mind in a final battle for the yusho!?

Agreed, a surprising result given neither got above one win in January. But it’s pretty cool to have a two Yokozuna winner-take-all final bout of the basho.

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