robnplunder

Haru 2020 Basho Discussion (SPOILERS)

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5 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

That's fair.   If Aoiyama faces both Yokozuna, his chance of getting the yusho is very poor.   

In the end, it may come down to Hak and Kak showdown.  

Standard practice. A Maegashira outside the joi who is trailing a titled rikishi doesn’t usually get the chance to face him. It’s a privilege of rank that you get to protect your own lead and not potentially hand a win to a rank-and-filer that lets them catch you up. This is why Ichinojo didn’t get to face Hakuho in his recent 14-1 basho. He had to wait and hope Hakuho slipped up to get back in contention. 

When the reverse is true, the senior rikishi gets the chance to catch up by facing and beating the Maegashira ahead of him. A Yokozuna is allowed to determine his own fate.

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2 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

Aoiyama's projected opponents for the last four days: Mitakeumi (today), Takanosho (tomorrow), Endo, Daieisho.

I'm expecting Shodai for Saturday.

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Day 12 Rikishi talk:

Kaisei, after getting his kachikoshi today: "Oops, I drank the chikaramizu by mistake.. I mean, I didn't drink it but it touched my lips.." (Because of the corona virus, the guys aren't allowed to actually drink it, just to go through the motions..)

Ex- Kisenosato, commentating on today's TV broadcast, on Hakuhou's loss today: "The Yokozuna was really messy.. Shoudai dealing with his slaps was textbook stuff. While firmly coming from below, go inside for your opponent's bosom. It was textbook offence.."

Ex-Mainoumi, on the same TV show, same Hakuhou: "It looked like he was desperate. There were a lot of futile moves on his part. He slapped with his right at the tachiai but it didn't faze Shoudai, which totally threw him off.."

Shoudai, on beating Hakuhou: "I wasn't thinking too much but I was able to somehow remain on the dohyo. Beating the Yokozuna makes me happy. I trained a lot with him before the basho and studied his tachiai, keeping it in my mind. But if I think about it, I might recoil, so I decided not to think about it too much.  I just want to get my kachikoshi and establish myself as a Sekiwake!"

Aoiyama, the sole leader after day 12: "It was great. I'm hitting and moving forward. i was able to be calm as if it were a training session..I speak to my wife on the phone every day and it boosts my spirit. It's usually before my bedtime so we keep it short (an hour and a half, I am told..)" No going out at night for him or his wife who is in Tokyo, because of the virus scare. "She is also all alone and I know she is sad, but she is patient. I'm trying not to think about the yusho race, as it freezes me up..("It makes me hard/stiff" is the better translation but with you lot..)

Kakuryuu, 10 wins and in  the race: "I had a scary tachiai but managed to settle down after that. My body really responded well. I will concentrate and gambarize tomorrow as well!"

Enhou, losing to Hokutofuji and suffering a makekoshi at his highest career rank of Maegashira 4: "This is what my strength is at this point. I simply lack power!"

Hokutofuji, finally winning today after eight straight losses: "I'm happy I finally got a win.. I knew I had to keep my opponent in front of me."

Takarafuji, getting his first kachikoshi after three bashos and a basho after his mentor passed away, 'returning the favor': "I want to play a more active role. Tokushouryuu's yusho (they are from the same school year) was a stimulus for me.. As for the kachikoshi, I trained more than usual before the basho and that was good."

Asanoyama, facing same- record Hakuhou tomorrow, a bit of  luck winning today: " I dropped him with some luck, probably because I put some pressure on him. As I'm not going out after hours, I'm watching my favorite action movies every day. I'm able to get sumo out of my head and refresh myself for a few hours. Ozeki promotion? I'm taking it a bout a day. I'll be facing tomorrow anew and do sumo. Hakuhou? If we get into a hold it will be the Dai-Yokozuna's game. I have no choice but to hit and go forward and forward and attack. I'm not thinking about the yusho race. I'm just fighting 15 days as a challenger!"

More as they become available..

 

Edited by Kintamayama
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2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Even in winning, Takakeisho looked unimpressive.   I think he will go Kadoban.

 

He looked really punchy, like he has a concussion or a virus or something

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Midorifuji again, down in Juryo, going like a house on fire. Really enjoying his “small man” version of sumo: fearlessly and aggressively going head to head and not ducking his opponents with henka and other tricks. Yoritaoshi victory today evoked images of Superman 

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2 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

I'm expecting Shodai for Saturday.

We haven't seen Shodai v Hokutofuji yet, so I'm guessing they are planning to match one or both of those against Aoiyama in the last 2 days.

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Isn't this the point in the basho (day 10-12) when the Osaka clay starts turning to sand?  A lot of "slippiotoshi" wins today.

Forum gurus: what happens if both combatants fall/slip down at the same time?

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I'm really surprised at Shodai withstanding Hakuho's slap attack, but less surprised that Hak lost once it didn't work.

I fancy Asanoyama's chances of getting 11, and that may be enough, fusensho notwithstanding. Beating 1 or both the yokozuna should clinch it. That's if he gets a chance. There's going to be some torikumi shuffling because of Aoiyama's lead.

I'll be amazed if Aoiyama manages to maintain his lead over the last 3 days, but yeah, why not another Bulgarian taking the Emperor's Cup?

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More talk Day 12:

Hakkaku rijicho on Hakuhou today: "It wasn't like him at all. It seemed like he couldn't contain his agitation. He clearly lost his composure from the start.  His second slap totally missed and he lost his balance. It seemed like he wasn't mentally prepared- what the heck happened there? He may have been very eager to get the bout over with in a hurry or something, but I have never seen Hakuhou like that. This will probably reflect in his bout tomorrow against Asanoyama. It's not that he was beaten today - it's more like he dug his own grave.. One wonders if he can reorganize tomorrow."

Nishikido oyakata, who was head judge during the bout: "Usually when he goes for the salt, he runs a bit. Today he was hesitant. Usually, when he slaps, it's either a slap and grab or a slap and push. Today, it was just a slap..His body was a bit high today. Usually he keeps his elbows in but today he was shaky.."

Ishiura, kachikoshi: "I'm relieved, but I want to continue to show my good form till the end. I don't want to be complacent.."

Kotonowaka, third straight loss and no kachikoshi yet: "It's not that I'm moving badly.  I want to feel I'm going all out with my sumo."

Yutakayama, 5 straight wins after beating Asanoyama: "That's the whole story.. After that bout I felt I had to do the best sumo I can. After the basho ends I'd like to think that it was a good basho.."

Takanoshou, third loss, in answer to the press calling him: "Excuse me.."

Edited by Kintamayama
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Hakuho really brought it today, "it" being victory, which he handed to Shodai. Did he just feel like he needed to slap someone around? As soon as Shodai started that strong advance, I realized Hakuho had let himself get out of position and was in trouble. Weird match.

 

GO, ASANOYAMA! And for that matter, GO AOIYAMA! Tempted to say, "There's no way he'll take the cup" but after last basho I'm not sure I can ever say that with confidence again.

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7 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

I'm expecting Shodai for Saturday.

Agree. And Asanoyama on Sunday. No point having Asanoyama fighting injured Takakeisho in case they are both still in the race.

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1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

Isn't this the point in the basho (day 10-12) when the Osaka clay starts turning to sand?  A lot of "slippiotoshi" wins today.

Forum gurus: what happens if both combatants fall/slip down at the same time?

Doesn't matter if they slip and fall at the same time, it's who touches down first. If they touch down at the same time, torinaoshi. 

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Some of my view after day 12

Hakuho: if he lose again vs Asanoyama, will he be kyujo?

Enho: shouganai-na

Asanoyama: numbers are within reach, but will he be ozeki next basho?

Kotonowaka: 7-5 after 7-2 on day 9. I hope Enho-on-May-2019-basho-MK situation won't happen, but yea, it can happen

Tochinoshin: :-| so much kuroboshi, not so powerful

Edited by code_number3

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WOW Aoiyama sole lead 3 days remaining. Looked very good today against Mitakeumi. One difference this basho is that he is going forward and pushing more often, not always going back and going for a slap down as he usually does. It really will be crucial who he faces the final days - I don't think he can handle a yokozuna or someone with much better technique than him, but with just 3 days to go and given that he can afford a loss, he has to be flowing with confidence.

Really looking forward to Asanoyama-Hak tomorrow too, that one's massive.

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3 minutes ago, Highway said:

WOW Aoiyama sole lead 3 days remaining. Looked very good today against Mitakeumi. One difference this basho is that he is going forward and pushing more often, not always going back and going for a slap down as he usually does. It really will be crucial who he faces the final days - I don't think he can handle a yokozuna or someone with much better technique than him, but with just 3 days to go and given that he can afford a loss, he has to be flowing with confidence.

Really looking forward to Asanoyama-Hak tomorrow too, that one's massive.

I just love the fact Aoiyama is where he is at now.  But he is sporting 1-40 record against Hak & Kak, the lone win coming against Kak.  The win-loss record is almost Hattorizakura like.  I think (:-P) Aoiyama is barely getting any sleep worrying about the Mongolian Yokozuna pair.  Or, he is getting good sleep thinking he has nothing to lose (!).  

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5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

More talk Day 12:

Hakkaku rijicho on Hakuhou today: "... what the heck happened there? "

 

My apologies if I am bothering you and others, but is it that the rikishi and the kyokai powers are a little less composed in their comments than usual ? I am really wondering. (Eh?) 

Edited by Gospodin

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32 minutes ago, Gospodin said:

My apologies if I am bothering you and others, but is it that the rikishi and the kyokai powers are a little less composed in their comments than usual ? I am really wondering. (Eh?) 

A little less composed than when? Some of the rikishi have a great sense of humor. Hakkaku is usually sharper than others. Some of them just grunt. I don't think it's anything special.

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The Ikioi v. Tamawashi had some pretty straight up sumo today.  Tamawashi was already carrying 8 losses, but that didn't mean he didn't want/need the win.  But Ikioi who is on track for his KK, fought with spirit and skill that we haven't seen from him since his recent bout with injury.  Both are big men, and Ikioi held his own against the Mongolian, winning by hatakikomi.

After the bout, Ikioi seemed as though he was worried that he might be bleeding from his head.  There was a hard head-on-head collision out of the tachiai, to which reactions from commentators have varied varied this tournament.  John G is of the opinion that this practice is undesirable and measures should be introduced to limit its occurrence (listen to Day 1).  Murray J, on the other hand , seems to literally enjoy seeing and hearing the crashing of skulls (listen to Day 12).  John has my support.  After all, he is intimately familiar with sumo, having been a wrestler himself.

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6 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

A little less composed than when? Some of the rikishi have a great sense of humor. Hakkaku is usually sharper than others. Some of them just grunt. I don't think it's anything special.

In my gai-jin mind I was imagining, say, a Yankees star telling the media that an ongoing playoff series sucks, and the commissioner wondering what´s going on in the brain of the game´s best player ever. That wouldn´t go unanswered. It seems I am just discovering a cultural aspect I have missed thus far, many thanks.

(BTW, I love love your epitaph :-))

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Rikishi talk- major shift!

With the arrival of new stars, the rikishi style of interview has changed a bit. "I shall gambarize" is on its way out. The new top 10, not in any order:

10- "I'm not thinking of the yusho."

9- "I am concentrating on a daily basis." or "I'm taking it one day at a time."

8 - "I don't think I'm in bad shape."

7 - "It was all in the flow."

6 - "The basho has just started" or "I'll keep on gambarizing till the end."

5 - "My body is moving (responding) well."

4 - "I will be going all out." or "I will be giving it my all."

3 - "I want to do forward moving sumo."

2. "My aim is kachikoshi/double digit wins/to remain in the yusho race."

1. "Who ate my yoghurt?"

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1 minute ago, Gospodin said:

In my gai-jin mind I was imagining, say, a Yankees star telling the media that an ongoing playoff series sucks, and the commissioner wondering what´s going on in the brain of the game´s best player ever. That wouldn´t go unanswered. It seems I am just discovering a cultural aspect I have missed thus far, many thanks.

(BTW, I love love your epitaph :-))

I think it's in the tone, not the words. There is no malice when the rikishi/Oyakata say these things. It's more out of worry or out of despair..When Hokutofuji says the basho sucks, he means HE sucks.

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6 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

I think it's in the tone, not the words. There is no malice when the rikishi/Oyakata say these things. It's more out of worry or out of despair..When Hokutofuji says the basho sucks, he means HE sucks.

Thanks a lot for this. I was really wondering if they were going out of their way.

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Lost in translation comes to my mind.   Even if the translation is right, one has to read between the lines.  For fun, my translation:

 

10- "I'm not thinking of the yusho." <---- I am thinking about it sometimes.

9- "I am concentrating on a daily basis." or "I'm taking it one day at a time."  <----  No change in the routine, including drinking biru afterward.

8 - "I don't think I'm in bad shape." <---- I am in better shape.

7 - "It was all in the flow." <---- I wasn't concentrating well.

6 - "The basho has just started" or "I'll keep on gambarizing till the end."  <---- I didn't have a good start.  I am hosed.

5 - "My body is moving (responding) well."  <---- My injury has healed a little.

4 - "I will be going all out." or "I will be giving it my all."  <--- Another day at the office.

3 - "I want to do forward moving sumo." <--- I won't henka.

2. "My aim is kachikoshi/double digit wins/to remain in the yusho race." <--- I am injury-free and have a chance at the yusho.

1. "Who ate my yoghurt?" <--- I lost some weight.

 

 

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13 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

We haven't seen Shodai v Hokutofuji yet, so I'm guessing they are planning to match one or both of those against Aoiyama in the last 2 days.

The reason we haven't seen that match yet is that it's ordinarily pencilled in for senshuraku as part of the sanyaku soroibumi.

(And I don't quite see the logical connection between that match not having happened and their possible plans for Aoiyama, anyway.)

Edited by Asashosakari

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3 hours ago, robnplunder said:

10- "I'm not thinking of the yusho." <---- I am thinking about it sometimes.

10- "I'm not thinking of the yusho." <--- I am thinking of little else.

There. Fixed it. ;-)

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