robnplunder

Haru 2020 Basho Discussion (SPOILERS)

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Maybe I'm naive, but I always imagined that when the judges got onto the dohyo after a mono-ii they had a discussion about what they had seen. After today's Abi v Hokutofuji match however, it was very obvious that they were just standing there in silence waiting for the nod from the video judge. 

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Posted (edited)

Impressive throw down by Asanoyama!  Very Ozeki-like.   His chance at the promotion is looking good.

Give the yusho to Hak and let's call it a basho.   

 

Edited by robnplunder

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Yep, I too thought Asanoyama looked good there. Enho on the other hand ... easy day at the office for Kakuryu. Enho will be disappointed he didn’t put up more of a show. He trains with a Yokozuna every day and presumably got some tips on fighting Kakuryu from him.

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22 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Enho on the other hand ... easy day at the office for Kakuryu. Enho will be disappointed he didn’t put up more of a show. He trains with a Yokozuna every day and presumably got some tips on fighting Kakuryu from him.

He simply adhered to the enacted safety distance.

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Posted (edited)

Day 7: (Will be edited and stuff added as rikishi will talk..)

Toyonoshima, losing today to Fujiazuma in Makushita, now 2-2: "I got my right hand in, but my opponent got his left in and right outside grip and waited patiently to attack. I tried to break his inside hold but couldn't get a good position.. I lost to my opponent's pressure. Still, i'm 2-2 so i shall gambarize!1"

Enhou, first time facing a Yokozuna (Kakuryuu) and losing: "I feel i am still a long way from being able to match up to a Yokozuna."

Kakuryuu, on beating Enhou: "I didn't want him going inside so I did my best to be ready for anything. The double slap at the beginning? Well, my opponent comes in low, so.."

Mainoumi commentator, on Hakuhou's slap and grab: "If his opponents won't start learning how to withstand Hakuhou's S and G tachiai, they will go on forever without beating him. The rikishi need to go in with a plan to counter it, like looking out for it and then standing ..."

Asanoyama , back to winning, beating Endou: "I didn't want to think only about not losing 2 straight.  If i think too much about it  i get stiff. So I did my best not to think about it..It was a throw, but I was moving forward to achieve it. Yesterday I was retreating.. My record against Endou is not good but he is not my nemesis. If I regarded him as such I wouldn't be able to do any sumo. I'm younger than him, I went at it as if I was borrowing his chest.. Last basho I stalled, but I don't think of the past. I won today, but I'll forget about it tomorrow morning. I don't drag my win or loss to the next day. Day by day, I'll just be doing  my own sumo!"

Hakuhou, back from an injury and leading alone with a 7-0: "They say the best medicine is a win. And Day 7 is over..The Olympics? Everyone knows I want to do the dohyo iri there in memory of my father. Times are difficult but I have a good feeling. The games make people all over the world happy. Everyone is anticipating them. With this kind of basho,  I feel I need to pull everyone behind me.."

Newcomer Kotonowaka, 5th win by beating giant Kaisei: "My body moved well. I am relaxed.this basho. Kachikoshi close?  For now, I want to use all my power.."

Edited by Kintamayama
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Posted (edited)

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but ... there were two apparent injuries to Isegahama-Stable sekitori today.  Sigh.

Down in Jyuryo, fan-favourite Terunofuji picked up his sixth win, but at a cost.  The strange thing was that he defeated Kotoshoho with a left-handed uwatenage throw, yet when he got up off the dohyo, he appeared to be in significant pain clutching his right elbow.  The guy is a monster, and can probably beat most opponents with one hand.  But ...

Up in the Makuuchi Division, Terutsuyoshi dispatched then co-leader Aoiyama with a shitatenage throw.  But the little man appeared to have strained his right elbow as he out-muscled and out-maneuvered the big Bulgarian.

Hopefully, both men will recover quickly.  Terutsuyoshi needs three more wins for his KK, whereas Terunofuji is well-positioned to take the Juryo championship, but would probably be happy with an 11-4 (?) record, which might be enough to bump him up to the Top Division in May.

Edited by Amamaniac
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13 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

 

Up in the Makuuchi Division, Terutsuyoshi dispatched then co-leader Aoiyama with a shitatenage throw.  But the little man appeared to have strained his right elbow as he out-muscled and out-maneuvered the big Bulgarian.

 

Aoiyama had him in that deadly kime hold for a while-that's what caused the pain.

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Good Nakabi Day,

   I'm interested in opinions on the psychological/mental aspects of this fan-less basho:

  • Which rikishi seem to be missing the crowd the most?  Some rikishi (Asashoryu was the master) feed off the crowd and without it this basho, their performance/gusto may be down a notch.  Enho?  Endo?  
  • Which rikishi seem to be doing better without the crowd?  I would tend to lean towards the most introverted of the group.  Kakuryu?  Aoiyama?
  • Has the lack of crowd in the front rows taken away the element of precaution that might creep into to the rikishi's psyche/brain during a match?   Note the Yutakayama-Daieisho match as an example.   I've noticed, there is no worry about crashing into fans.   Does the lack of front row fans prevent injuries?  Does it allow rikishi to go all out more since the worry of collision or bracing a fall is eliminated?
  • Day-to-day, are the rikishi preparing for bouts differently?  Do they take this basho as serious as other bashos?  Or might it seem more like a practice or exhibition event? 
  • Any other differences in performance in a fan vs non-fan environment?

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4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Enhou, first time facing a Yokozuna (Kakuryuu) and losing: "I feel i am still a long way from being able to match up to a Yokozuna."

That was an understatement!

Tochinoshin-Takarafuji was a good one today.

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2 hours ago, shimodahito said:

Good Nakabi Day,

   I'm interested in opinions on the psychological/mental aspects of this fan-less basho:

  • Which rikishi seem to be missing the crowd the most?  Some rikishi (Asashoryu was the master) feed off the crowd and without it this basho, their performance/gusto may be down a notch.  Enho?  Endo?  
  • Which rikishi seem to be doing better without the crowd?  I would tend to lean towards the most introverted of the group.  Kakuryu?  Aoiyama?
  • Has the lack of crowd in the front rows taken away the element of precaution that might creep into to the rikishi's psyche/brain during a match?   Note the Yutakayama-Daieisho match as an example.   I've noticed, there is no worry about crashing into fans.   Does the lack of front row fans prevent injuries?  Does it allow rikishi to go all out more since the worry of collision or bracing a fall is eliminated?
  • Day-to-day, are the rikishi preparing for bouts differently?  Do they take this basho as serious as other bashos?  Or might it seem more like a practice or exhibition event? 
  • Any other differences in performance in a fan vs non-fan environment?

1. Enhou

2. Aoiyama

3. Dont know

4. Seriously for sure. The records count.

5. Everything is different

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8 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Maybe I'm naive, but I always imagined that when the judges got onto the dohyo after a mono-ii they had a discussion about what they had seen. After today's Abi v Hokutofuji match however, it was very obvious that they were just standing there in silence waiting for the nod from the video judge. 

On a day of mediocre sumo, the mono-ii is often the highlight of the sumo party as my friends and I all take turns providing the over-dubbed dialogue. A close second is "Towel Watch", whereupon we opine sagaciously on the order in which a rikishi chooses to wipe themselves with their towel. 

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4 hours ago, shimodahito said:

Good Nakabi Day,

   I'm interested in opinions on the psychological/mental aspects of this fan-less basho:

  • Which rikishi seem to be missing the crowd the most?  Some rikishi (Asashoryu was the master) feed off the crowd and without it this basho, their performance/gusto may be down a notch.  Enho?  Endo?  
  • Which rikishi seem to be doing better without the crowd?  I would tend to lean towards the most introverted of the group.  Kakuryu?  Aoiyama?
  • Has the lack of crowd in the front rows taken away the element of precaution that might creep into to the rikishi's psyche/brain during a match?   Note the Yutakayama-Daieisho match as an example.   I've noticed, there is no worry about crashing into fans.   Does the lack of front row fans prevent injuries?  Does it allow rikishi to go all out more since the worry of collision or bracing a fall is eliminated?
  • Day-to-day, are the rikishi preparing for bouts differently?  Do they take this basho as serious as other bashos?  Or might it seem more like a practice or exhibition event? 
  • Any other differences in performance in a fan vs non-fan environment?
  • Enho
  • Mitakeumi maybe
  • I also thought about that.... I guess: to fall on people must be a softer experience than to fall on the hard ground, but then again the thought of crushing someone next to the dohyo might alter the fall itself, so it's harder to anticipate what will happen, they have less control. 
  • I sense complete seriousness (just look at any of the Yokozuna dohyo-iri... f.ex. Hak doing it beautifully! - but also on the dohyo!) I guess they try to prepare the same way, but I'm not sure it's possible with these circumstances...
  • Oh yes, the sounds, as they mentioned it before in this thread (and everywhere on Facebook-groups) and also I think the viewer experience is much more concentrated this way too. This week I've watched some bouts from previous tournaments, and I almost felt the crowd disturbing... :D :D  
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Tochi X Takaranonékifuji; wow! 

(By the way morosashi loss day...)

Kakuryu played babysitter ozumo against Enho..."Look Hak im not hurting your kid” rsrsrs

I guess Hak is in pain but thinking...."What the hell...I never won an empty public basho, lets do this"

 

 

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Takanosho and Daeisho are doing very well.    Enho has run into a wall at his current level.   I still don't see him ever becoming a sanyuku.  If he does, I will send him an apology via text.   

Hak will take the yusho.  Only an injury or basho cancellation will prevent him from earning another trophy.  

 

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10 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Newcomer Kotonowaka, 5th win by beating giant Kaisei: "My body moved well. I am relaxed.this basho. Kachikoshi close?  For now, I want to use all my power.."

I've been quite impressed by young Kotonowaka II.  He may well have a prosperous career ahead of him.

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9 hours ago, Kintamayama said:
10 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

 

Aoiyama had him in that deadly kime hold for a while-that's what caused the pain.

I really thought Aoiyama had that in hand - literally.  He just got a little too eager and got ahead of himself.  He's showing good aggression and didn't temper it with needed patience today.

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10 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Up in the Makuuchi Division, Terutsuyoshi dispatched then co-leader Aoiyama with a shitatenage throw.  But the little man appeared to have strained his right elbow as he out-muscled and out-maneuvered the big Bulgarian.

Following his match one of the NHK reporters said that while he appeared to be in pain immediately after the bout, afterward he indicated he was OK. Hopefully he is.

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10 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but ... there were two apparent injuries to Isegahama-Stable sekitori today.  Sigh.

Down in Jyuryo, fan-favourite Terunofuji picked up his sixth win, but at a cost.  The strange thing was that he defeated Kotoshoho with a left-handed uwatenage throw, yet when he got up off the dohyo, he appeared to be in significant pain clutching his right elbow.  The guy is a monster, and can probably beat most opponents with one hand.  But ...

Up in the Makuuchi Division, Terutsuyoshi dispatched then co-leader Aoiyama with a shitatenage throw.  But the little man appeared to have strained his right elbow as he out-muscled and out-maneuvered the big Bulgarian.

Hopefully, both men will recover quickly.  Terutsuyoshi needs three more wins for his KK, whereas Terunofuji is well-positioned to take the Juryo championship, but would probably be happy with an 11-4 (?) record, which might be enough to bump him up to the Top Division in May.

Terunofuji has been favouring the right elbow after a couple matches but has still scored some wins since then...hopefully it's nothing more than a niggle.

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2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Takanosho and Daeisho are doing very well.    Enho has run into a wall at his current level.   I still don't see him ever becoming a sanyuku.  If he does, I will send him an apology via text.   

Hak will take the yusho.  Only an injury or basho cancellation will prevent him from earning another trophy.  

I like your assessment of the situation as at day 7!

Takanosho especially is coming into his own in this tournament.  I love his nickname too: o-nigiri (rice ball).  Being able to train with Takakeisho could well be the secret behind his improvement.

Enho is definitely struggling.  But keep in mind that this is arguably the first time he has be put through the "meat grinder" that is the make-or-break zone on the banzuke.  2-5 is not the greatest start, but he still has eight more days to eek out a KK.  Of all the current wrestlers, I would say that Enho misses the stadium fans the most.  He has always credited the fans with giving him extra energy when he fights.  

This could be a "wall" moment for Enho, but I haven't given up on his KK chances quite yet.  I don't know of many wrestlers who have his determination to succeed.  (Of course, sumo requires more than just determination.)

Hakuho is the sole front runner, and one should never bet against the GOAT.  Although Hakuho seems to be healthy, to my eye he is fighting cautious, old-man sumo.  He seems to be playing it safe, and trying to remain patient.  With that approach, he could indeed win in Osaka.  But there are still eight days left, and many things could happen.  Can Hakuho remain focused till the end?  I'm hoping for some twists and some excitement.

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@Amamaniac - Enho is one of my favorite rikishi and I hope he does get KK.   

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Posted (edited)

Enho has fought in 18 basho not counting his Maezumo debut.  In 14 of these he was at his highest-ever rank.  Every wall he has hit has been a temporary hurdle.   Anyone looking at his career stats not knowing his body size would quickly conclude that he was a strong candidate for ozeki or more eventually.

Edited by Ichimawashi
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3 minutes ago, Ichimawashi said:

Enho has fought in 18 basho not counting his Maezumo debut.  In 14 of these he was at his highest-ever rank.  Every wall he has hit has been a temporary hurdle.   Anyone looking at his stats not knowing his body size would quickly conclude that he was a strong candidate for ozeki or more eventually.

Of the “recent” Ozeki promotees his record to date is arguably closest to Terunofuji’s was in that he didn’t manage a double-digit kachikoshi until he made it to sanyaku but worked his way up steadily with 8-7 and 9-6 records over a year. Somehow I don’t see Enho ever having a breakout basho tough, where he suddenly manages the numbers to challenge for yusho. I definitely don’t see him doing across three tournaments. I’d love to be proved wrong.

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Terunofuji didn't look great against Chiyoshoma.

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