Kintamayama

Corona and sumo

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Posted (edited)
50 minutes ago, Highway said:

I take it sumo wrestlers aren't bubbled away like some other sports? Kept in one place and isolated, no outside contacts at all? If so, I'd like to know why. Because whatever the reasoning for 'well we can't bubble them because...' I'm not sure is going to hold up when the end result is your top yokozuna getting the virus and the basho possibly cancelled along with him. 

The reasoning is simply that the basho(w) will go on (kill me). Especially with the Tamanoi precedent established, the basho can be allowed to take place without disadvantaging the rikishi forced to sit out, even as a heya. So there's no need to bubble them all together; bubbling them separately in each heya will do. And it has worked; there are no inter-heya infections, Minato oyakata and his gyoji don't seem to have infected the rikishi (as they're abiding by the rules for people not staying in the stable), and if Hakuho is the only Miyagino beya rikishi infected then it's shown to work even more.

Also, it's not Hakuho getting infected that will cancel the basho. It's the fact that Tokyo might be put under a state of emergency. It is true both events have a common origin of Japan's third wave, but correlation =/= causation, and Hakuho getting infected is not going to cancel the basho especially if the measures work and he doesn't infect anyone else in the sumo world. So he sits out. So what? He's been doing that for two basho already!

But overall, if you're asking why they're not bubbled.... let me just put it to you this way. The NSK still thinks that they can hold a basho, with 5000 spectators, at a time when Japan is in the midst of a really bad third wave. Do you think they thought for a moment their measures were inadequate?

In their defence, though, just because something has gone wrong doesn't mean it's absolutely the fault of the person whose charge it was. It's my legal background speaking, but the question we ask is always whether it was reasonable to have done what they did to prevent infections, not whether they absolutely managed to prevent infections. It's true they probably fail both standards, but I'm much more willing to give them a pass by the reasonable rather than the absolute standard. We don't know enough yet, nor are we likely to, but hindsight is always 20/20 and it's easier for us to criticise a bad outcome than it is to actually be in the trenches trying to avoid it.

But by the same yardstick, I hope the YDC has the wisdom not to say anything. They have the luxury of being armchair critics like us; if they come out with a boneheaded statement about Hakuho's non-participation, the NSK's got a difficult job of telling them to piss off without telling them to piss off.

Edited by Seiyashi

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5 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

I know they don't really care what they say, although Chris really criticized the NSK when it came to not acknowledging Shobushi's death enough. I also feel like he thinks he knows better than the NSK on a lot of what they do. Regardless of what happens, he's going to come out swinging and try to appeal to his fringe fans.

I know Chris Gould is somewhat frowned upon for at lot of his views and I understand he (unjustifiably, to me at least) attacked certain members of the Sumo fandom, but I'm very much of the opinion that having a Basho at all atm is questionable at best. Hakuho is NOT the only Makuuchi Rikishi to catch Covid 19 within the last days. 

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Highway said:

I take it sumo wrestlers aren't bubbled away like some other sports? Kept in one place and isolated, no outside contacts at all?

Uh, which sport does that anymore outside of the actual event/tournament dates? Leaving aside government-mandated quarantine periods which the sports orgs don't have a hand in. As far as I can tell, life goes on more or less as usual during regular training days for pretty much all professional athletes.

("Usual" by general society standards during these times, that is.)

Edited by Asashosakari
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18 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Uh, which sport does that anymore outside of the actual event/tournament dates? Leaving aside government-mandated quarantine periods which the sports orgs don't have a hand in. As far as I can tell, life goes on more or less as usual during regular training days for pretty much all professional athletes.

("Usual" by general society standards during these times, that is.)

My understanding is that they are/were doing that in the US with basketball and other sports and it seemed to be working for them....I do not know if that has continued. But yeah especially close to tournament dates that would be much needed I think.

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Posted (edited)

Breaking news:  it has been reported that Hakuho tested positive for Covid!  His January 2021 comeback will probably be put on hold, we'll see.  But how will this high-level infection influence the New Year Tournament?  There seems to be a rash of cases in the lead up to this basho...

https://www.chunichi.co.jp/article/180732

 

Edited by Amamaniac
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If it makes anyone feel better, elite level football is being allowed to continue behind closed doors despite the UK going back into nationwide lockdown. Japan’s situation is nowhere near as bad, so being optimistic, a no-spectator basho seems doable with precautions in place.

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Posted (edited)

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/fbef1ce549780f20d20e6b96863e47daeab773c2?fbclid=IwAR3z06Sgp6xPh-ODgXMcBWLt2w8Z_x1N5sq1Mn5h0f7nl20W3uHya5JMd0Q

"The virus doesn't just move by itself. Infections are from the actions of people. So, in this case to hold the Hatsu Basho safely, movement should be minimized, and especially always wear masks. Other than that, hand washing, disinfection, and taking a bath/shower after going out and returning home. With this I hope we can protect ourselves. For those married with family at home, I hope they can have a gentle talk with them about these things related to going outside"

At today's meeting it was decided that on the 6th at 5pm there would be  stop sale on Hatsu Basho entry tickets. Same day tickets won't be sold. The kyokai has executed countermeasures even before a state of emergency has been declared. (Seems they want to show they've done enough? to avoid government interference.)

"Until tomorrow they said they'll do the sale, which also means that from the kyokai's point of view the opening (of the basho) will be as usual as long as there isn't something (something what?)" someone gave the explanation but not clearly.

"Announcements from the country, calls from the capital, there's a lot of stuff to check and think about"

Aiming for a safe shonichi on the 10th.

 

Edited by Tsuchinoninjin
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Posted (edited)

"Yes, he’s probably out," said Shibatayama of Hakuhou,  who has entered a hospital. No word yet on the others of the heya. What if they are all negative? Will they be allowed to enter? "Until I consult with a specialist, I can't answer that at this point," he said.

Edited by Kintamayama
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6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

"Yes, he’s probably out," said Shibatayama of Hakuhou,  who has entered a hospital. No word yet on the others of the heya. What if they are all negative? Will they be allowed to enter? "Until I consult with a specialist, I can't answer that at this point," he said.

Exactly the bit of info I came to the forum to find. Since I can't find a word of that in any of the English reports I've seen on Hakuho. Many thanks, Kinta. Please post updates, all of you folks who can actually read and speak Japanese.

Get well Hakuho!!!

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Posted (edited)

Source: https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/ece33c0705fb375b0896894a3ca0bcc28b11fa58 (Nikkan Sports via Yahoo! News) 

All 16 rikishi, including Ishiura and Enho have taken the PCR test and have come up negative for coronavirus. It's just Hakuho. 

Press Chief Shibatayama: "We do not know the exact number of people in Miyagino beya, such as the rikishi, oyakata and related people, such as mothers, managers, drivers and so on. But all will do the test. As I am inspecting, I could myself be a direct contact. As the rikishi are direct contacts, we are still unsure if we will allow them to participate in Hatsu." 

Side Note: SumoFollower (aka Herouth) noted an unofficial comment that Miyagino-beya will go kyujo. An official announcement has yet to be made. 

Some Hilarious Thoughts

1. Abi v. Hokuseiho might be happening after all. 

2. Enho: "I will make it back to Makuuchi in 1 basho." Hakuho: "Watch this." The relationship between Hakuho and his deshi has got to be the weirdest mentorships of all time. 

3. Entire heya being being pissed at Hakuho for being barred from Hatsu due to broken promises/missed opportunities and at the same time simultaneously grateful for extra injury-healing time for no cost. 

Edited by pricklypomegranate
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16 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Source: https://news.yahoo.co.jp/articles/ece33c0705fb375b0896894a3ca0bcc28b11fa58 (Nikkan Sports via Yahoo! News) 

All 16 rikishi, including Ishiura and Enho have taken the PCR test and have come up negative for coronavirus. It's just Hakuho.

I don't think they can start the basho given the incubation period of the virus.   An initial negative test does not necessarily mean they are not infected.   We will see in a few days what the sumo heads decide to do.  

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

I don't think they can start the basho given the incubation period of the virus.   An initial negative test does not necessarily mean they are not infected.   We will see in a few days what the sumo heads decide to do.  

Yes, I thought the decision to test them immediately was rather odd too. It wouldn't show up on the test if the incubation period hasn't been accounted for right? If Hatsu doesn't go ahead, well, at least loss to the heya is contained. But yeah, looks like the heya will be closed then to account for this time period. 

Edited by pricklypomegranate

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49 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Yes, I thought the decision to test them immediately was rather odd too. It wouldn't show up on the test if the incubation period hasn't been accounted for right? If Hatsu doesn't go ahead, well, at least loss to the heya is contained. But yeah, looks like the heya will be closed then to account for this time period. 

On the other hand what else would they do than test immediately? Saying "oh we'll take a few days to wait and see" would probably end up with both the govt and the public demanding for Kyokai heads for reacting slowly and letting possible infections run around. Probably best would be to test again after a few days. 

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, dingo said:

On the other hand what else would they do than test immediately? Saying "oh we'll take a few days to wait and see" would probably end up with both the govt and the public demanding for Kyokai heads for reacting slowly and letting possible infections run around. Probably best would be to test again after a few days. 

Of course, I understand that they have to do the test immediately because of public relations issues and the urgency of the upcoming basho. It's that it might not necessarily be accurate, and they would have to test them again later. The main point is that the entire heya will more than likely be shut down for Hatsu anyway. 

Edited by pricklypomegranate
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Posted (edited)
29 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:
51 minutes ago, dingo said:

On the other hand what else would they do than test immediately? Saying "oh we'll take a few days to wait and see" would probably end up with both the govt and the public demanding for Kyokai heads for reacting slowly and letting possible infections run around. Probably best would be to test again after a few days. 

Of course, I understand that they have to do the test immediately because of public relations issues and the urgency of the upcoming basho. It's that it might not necessarily be accurate, and they would have to test them again later. The main point is that the entire heya will more than likely be shut down for Hatsu anyway. 

What an early test does do is that it allows you to rule out, with some confidence, the possibility that there's another patient zero within the heya cluster.

Look at it this way. If Hakuho is Miyagino's patient zero, then he will be the first to show symptoms and everyone else will start showing a week or so later. But if he is not, then someone else in Miyagino is likely to test positive as well. Don't forget that there's the possibility of asymptomatic infection. The fact that Hakuho is infected raises significantly the probability that there may be an asymptomatic carrier within his group of contacts, which includes the heya, and that probability is what you do the early test to rule out. 

It's not a complete waste, but it does have to be supplemented by another test further down the road.

Edited by Seiyashi
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For all we know the other guys could have been infected at the same time Hakuhou was. Hence the testing, just like it's done in life itself. Negative at this point means just that - at this point. They should be self isolated for ten days and do another test. No way Miyagino beya will be participating in Hatsu. 

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Posted (edited)

Yup, we were right. It's now official. Miyagino-beya is closed for Hatsu, according to this Sports Hochi article. 

Edit: Sorry, misunderstood the article - the information is not yet official - see comments below. 

Edited by pricklypomegranate
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Hope they all get better first and foremost.

I’m sad about Hakuho no competing bu Ishiura and Enho can use the time off, their sumo has been uninspiring.

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36 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Yup, we were right. It's now official. Miyagino-beya is closed for Hatsu, according to this Sports Hochi article. 

There was no other choice.   I hope this is the last one but that's probably a bit too optimistic.  Japan had 6000 new infections yesterday, 700 more than the previous record.   Things are not looking good for a normal basho.   

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1 hour ago, pricklypomegranate said:

Yup, we were right. It's now official. Miyagino-beya is closed for Hatsu, according to this Sports Hochi article. 

Not official, still speculation, but no other way.. 

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At this point, there is a possibility of both Arashio and Miyagino being forced to sit out. Nothing is official yet. If that happens, 26 rikishi will be out. Minato beya people all found negative after the Oyakata and Kimura Motoki were found positive. 

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23 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Not official, still speculation, but no other way.. 

So much for Hokuseiho making it to Juryo in March :(

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4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Not official, still speculation, but no other way.. 

Sorry for the error - edit has been made to reflect this. 

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Posted (edited)

The Kyokai has decided all rikishi and Oyakata (900 beings) will undergo virus tests before the basho. "We must help all those who support sumo to be confident and to rely upon us to look out for their safety. so everyone will be tested," said Shibatayama Oyakata. A testing kit has been sent to each heya. "Tomorrow, we will be collecting all the kits and sending them to be checked. The torikumi making meeting will be held after we have the results, " he added. Usually , the torikumi makers meet on the Friday before the Basho to decide the first 2 days of matchups. No way this can happen now, as there is no way that all the results will be in in time. "I guess we'll have to do it the day after tomorrow.. As for the spectators, for now, it's 5000 on day 1. The most important thing is that the fans and all Kyokai members will feel safe and serene facing day 1," he summed.

Edited by Kintamayama
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