Corona and sumo

[Kamitsuumi 309]

According to Shibatayama, basho goes on as planned. With audience and no postponement.

[Kintamayama 40,739]

1 hour ago, Kamitsuumi said:

According to Shibatayama, basho goes on as planned. With audience and no postponement.

Stipulation-depending on emergency measures being instated nationwide.

[mt fuji 968]

Just announced Hakuho has a confirmed positive test! http://www.sumo.or.jp/IrohaKyokaiInformation/detail?id=428

[Seiyashi 3,458]

10 minutes ago, mt fuji said:

Just announced Hakuho has a confirmed positive test! http://www.sumo.or.jp/IrohaKyokaiInformation/detail?id=428

What the bloody hell. Yep, basho off.

[robnplunder 945]

I don't think there will be a normal basho in January if at all.   Bummer.

[WAKATAKE 2,365]

I think Hakuho coming down with Covid will probably be enough for the NSK to hold an emergency board meeting. Last I saw Shibatayama did say that they would be going forward and no plans to hold a board meeting, but this is more than enough to force their hand to do something. If not, we won't hear the end of it from Chris Gould and Takatoriki.

[Seiyashi 3,458]

14 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

I think Hakuho coming down with Covid will probably be enough for the NSK to hold an emergency board meeting. Last I saw Shibatayama did say that they would be going forward and no plans to hold a board meeting, but this is more than enough to force their hand to do something. If not, we won't hear the end of it from Chris Gould and Takatoriki.

I don't think the NSK gives two hoots about what Chris and Takatoriki say (do they even know who the former is?), but I agree that a kanban rikishi coming down with COVID has got to force a response somehow. But the worrying thing isn't just Hakuho being infected; it's the possibility of asymptomatic infections amongst rikishi given the current climate. If Hakuho, who presumably has been quite careful, can be infected, anyone can be.

[Katooshu 2,400]

But doesn't the sumo association hate Mongolians and yearn for another Japanese yokozuna? Calling the basho off because Hak is positive? Not a chance! It's more likely they sent an operative to infect Hak, so they could then hold the basho without him and get Takakeisho another yusho, or at least set up Asanoyama or Shodai for promotion next tournament. Plus this might put all of Miyagino on the sidelines, meaning Hokuseiho (Hokkaido my butt), will miss his chance for juryo promotion in January.

At least that's trying to keep conspiracies consistent... 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Katooshu

[Yamanashi 2,965]

2 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

But doesn't the sumo association hate Mongolians and yearn for another Japanese yokozuna? Calling the basho off because Hak is positive? Not a chance! It's more likely they sent an operative to infect Hak, so they could then hold the basho without him.

At least that's trying to keep conspiracies consistent... 

(My best Yoda voice): "Strong with this one the sarcasm is!"

[WAKATAKE 2,365]

1 hour ago, Seiyashi said:

I don't think the NSK gives two hoots about what Chris and Takatoriki say (do they even know who the former is?), but I agree that a kanban rikishi coming down with COVID has got to force a response somehow. But the worrying thing isn't just Hakuho being infected; it's the possibility of asymptomatic infections amongst rikishi given the current climate. If Hakuho, who presumably has been quite careful, can be infected, anyone can be.

I know they don't really care what they say, although Chris really criticized the NSK when it came to not acknowledging Shobushi's death enough. I also feel like he thinks he knows better than the NSK on a lot of what they do. Regardless of what happens, he's going to come out swinging and try to appeal to his fringe fans.

[Eikokurai 3,418]

Basho to go ahead and Hakuho to be recommended for retirement for going kyujo again. You heard it here first.

[robnplunder 945]

It is becoming increasingly likely that the basho may get canceled.  If not, it will start without the crowd and likely be canceled in mid-stream when someone tests positive.   

In an alternative universe, the basho ends without an incident with the 5000/day crowd allowed.     

[Jakusotsu 4,906]

16 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

It is becoming increasingly likely that the basho may get canceled.

And I'm starting to hope for it. With the GOAT out, Kakuryu phantomic, two Ozeki struggling with injuries, and more incumbents likely to be tested positive, it's bound to be a miss anyway.

(...or maybe I'm just fed up with everything right now...)

[pricklypomegranate 730]

24 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

It is becoming increasingly likely that the basho may get canceled.  If not, it will start without the crowd and likely be canceled in mid-stream when someone tests positive.   

A mid-basho cancellation while a tsuna run is ongoing would be especially catastrophic. Of course, Takakeisho could pull a Goeido and invalidate his run all on his own. But if he goes swimmingly and the basho is cancelled, what on earth are they going to do then? "Sorry Ozeki, but you're going to have start over again."? 

[Seiyashi 3,458]

Just now, pricklypomegranate said:

29 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

It is becoming increasingly likely that the basho may get canceled.  If not, it will start without the crowd and likely be canceled in mid-stream when someone tests positive.   

A mid-basho cancellation while a tsuna run is ongoing would be especially catastrophic. Of course, Takakeisho could pull a Goeido and invalidate his run all on his own. But if he goes swimmingly and the basho is cancelled, what on earth are they going to do then? "Sorry Ozeki, but you're going to have start over again."? 

Yeah, this will be a headscratcher, but realistically they'd probably invalidate the basho results as if it hadn't happened as it'd be fairest to everyone. The shimpanbu has been quite enlightened in dealing with the Tamanoi situation, so that portends well for the banzuke at least; I can't say the same for the rest of the sumo world.

[Sue 457]

9 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

A mid-basho cancellation while a tsuna run is ongoing would be especially catastrophic. Of course, Takakeisho could pull a Goeido and invalidate his run all on his own. But if he goes swimmingly and the basho is cancelled, what on earth are they going to do then? "Sorry Ozeki, but you're going to have start over again."? 

A typical Ozeki schedule puts the hard matches at the end of the basho. A tsuna-contending Ozeki absolutely should be taking care of business against the joi for the first half of the basho, and should be involved in the yusho arasoi most of the time until the really hard matches get going. Expecting TK to beat up M1 through M5 again, and be in the yusho conversation, for yet another basho, is a reasonable ask.

[Kaninoyama 1,293]

The real question is going to be what were the circumstances surrounding Hakuho's positive test. I wish him a speedy recovery, but if it were to come to light that he broke protocol and in so doing put the Hatsu basho, not to mention the health of the other rikishi, in jeopardy, I'd expect demand for his retirement to be imminent. 

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Kaninoyama

[since_94 626]

44 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

The real question is going to be what were the circumstances surrounding Hakuho's positive test. I wish him a speedy recovery, but if it were to come to light that he broke protocol and in so doing put the Hatsu basho, not to mention the health of the other rikishi, in jeopardy, I'd expect demand for his retirement to be imminent. 

 

I reckon they used a swab. Probably while wearing a mask and gloves.

[Highway 45]

I take it sumo wrestlers aren't bubbled away like some other sports? Kept in one place and isolated, no outside contacts at all? If so, I'd like to know why. Because whatever the reasoning for 'well we can't bubble them because...' I'm not sure is going to hold up when the end result is your top yokozuna getting the virus and the basho possibly cancelled along with him. 

[Seiyashi 3,458]

50 minutes ago, Highway said:

I take it sumo wrestlers aren't bubbled away like some other sports? Kept in one place and isolated, no outside contacts at all? If so, I'd like to know why. Because whatever the reasoning for 'well we can't bubble them because...' I'm not sure is going to hold up when the end result is your top yokozuna getting the virus and the basho possibly cancelled along with him. 

The reasoning is simply that the basho(w) will go on (kill me). Especially with the Tamanoi precedent established, the basho can be allowed to take place without disadvantaging the rikishi forced to sit out, even as a heya. So there's no need to bubble them all together; bubbling them separately in each heya will do. And it has worked; there are no inter-heya infections, Minato oyakata and his gyoji don't seem to have infected the rikishi (as they're abiding by the rules for people not staying in the stable), and if Hakuho is the only Miyagino beya rikishi infected then it's shown to work even more.

Also, it's not Hakuho getting infected that will cancel the basho. It's the fact that Tokyo might be put under a state of emergency. It is true both events have a common origin of Japan's third wave, but correlation =/= causation, and Hakuho getting infected is not going to cancel the basho especially if the measures work and he doesn't infect anyone else in the sumo world. So he sits out. So what? He's been doing that for two basho already!

But overall, if you're asking why they're not bubbled.... let me just put it to you this way. The NSK still thinks that they can hold a basho, with 5000 spectators, at a time when Japan is in the midst of a really bad third wave. Do you think they thought for a moment their measures were inadequate?

In their defence, though, just because something has gone wrong doesn't mean it's absolutely the fault of the person whose charge it was. It's my legal background speaking, but the question we ask is always whether it was reasonable to have done what they did to prevent infections, not whether they absolutely managed to prevent infections. It's true they probably fail both standards, but I'm much more willing to give them a pass by the reasonable rather than the absolute standard. We don't know enough yet, nor are we likely to, but hindsight is always 20/20 and it's easier for us to criticise a bad outcome than it is to actually be in the trenches trying to avoid it.

But by the same yardstick, I hope the YDC has the wisdom not to say anything. They have the luxury of being armchair critics like us; if they come out with a boneheaded statement about Hakuho's non-participation, the NSK's got a difficult job of telling them to piss off without telling them to piss off.

Edited January 5, 2021 by Seiyashi

[Thorbjarn 191]

5 hours ago, WAKATAKE said:

I know they don't really care what they say, although Chris really criticized the NSK when it came to not acknowledging Shobushi's death enough. I also feel like he thinks he knows better than the NSK on a lot of what they do. Regardless of what happens, he's going to come out swinging and try to appeal to his fringe fans.

I know Chris Gould is somewhat frowned upon for at lot of his views and I understand he (unjustifiably, to me at least) attacked certain members of the Sumo fandom, but I'm very much of the opinion that having a Basho at all atm is questionable at best. Hakuho is NOT the only Makuuchi Rikishi to catch Covid 19 within the last days. 

 

[Asashosakari 16,846]

2 hours ago, Highway said:

I take it sumo wrestlers aren't bubbled away like some other sports? Kept in one place and isolated, no outside contacts at all?

Uh, which sport does that anymore outside of the actual event/tournament dates? Leaving aside government-mandated quarantine periods which the sports orgs don't have a hand in. As far as I can tell, life goes on more or less as usual during regular training days for pretty much all professional athletes.

("Usual" by general society standards during these times, that is.)

Edited January 5, 2021 by Asashosakari

[Highway 45]

18 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Uh, which sport does that anymore outside of the actual event/tournament dates? Leaving aside government-mandated quarantine periods which the sports orgs don't have a hand in. As far as I can tell, life goes on more or less as usual during regular training days for pretty much all professional athletes.

("Usual" by general society standards during these times, that is.)

My understanding is that they are/were doing that in the US with basketball and other sports and it seemed to be working for them....I do not know if that has continued. But yeah especially close to tournament dates that would be much needed I think.

[Amamaniac 1,970]

Breaking news:  it has been reported that Hakuho tested positive for Covid!  His January 2021 comeback will probably be put on hold, we'll see.  But how will this high-level infection influence the New Year Tournament?  There seems to be a rash of cases in the lead up to this basho...

https://www.chunichi.co.jp/article/180732

 

Edited January 5, 2021 by Amamaniac

[ryafuji 760]

This has hit the mainstream English language press too - here's a BBC report:

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-55541444