Kintamayama

Corona and sumo

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Posted (edited)

It should go without saying that I was referring specifically to the suspension of tournaments, not a “virus spread among rikishi.” It’s quite possible that Natsu would have been cancelled even if there had been no confirmed cases among rikishi. Of course I hope that they take all the isolation measures necessary to make sure that it doesn’t spread outside this one heya. 

Edited by ryafuji
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5 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

It should go without saying that was referring specifically to the suspension of tournaments, not a “virus spread among rikishi.” It’s quite possible that Natsu would have been cancelled even if there had been no confirmed cases among rikishi. Of course I hope that they take all the isolation measures necessary to make sure that it doesn’t spread outside this one heya. 

Likewise on my post. Apologies if anyone took offense or thought I was making light of the situation. As I mentioned in my initial post, health and safety are the most important things for the rikishi and all people in general. 

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2 hours ago, Katsunorifuji said:

Good points. If we are looking at a one basho delay then most of the guys fighting injured seem to benefit. A few extra weeks to recover and heal gives them a chance to come back in July healthier than they have been for a while. In fact you can probably make the case that everyone really benefits from the extra time off. 

I would say that also depends on just how much their training efforts get curtailed in the meantime. A basho full of rusty and undertrained rikishi might well bring its own injury risks, largely nullifying the benefits of a longer break.

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Posted (edited)

If the forced vacation extends to the end of the year, will there be a pay cut?  Beya closures due to finance hardship?  Dropouts?  New retirees?  I'd think so.

 

This won't be the only heya with infection.  The virus spreads like what you see in a zombie movie.  Speaking of, if you have not seen Netflix's Kingdom 1 & Kingdom 2, I highly recommend.   

Edited by robnplunder

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6 hours ago, robnplunder said:

If the forced vacation extends to the end of the year, will there be a pay cut?  Beya closures due to finance hardship?  Dropouts?  New retirees?  I'd think so.

 

This won't be the only heya with infection.  The virus spreads like what you see in a zombie movie.  Speaking of, if you have not seen Netflix's Kingdom 1 & Kingdom 2, I highly recommend.   

And will Asanoyama and Shodai share the award for most wins in a year? (Scratchingchin...)

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If we only had someone in the know amongst us to tell us which heya it might be. Why is this secrecy though. Baseball in Japan announced immediately the infected players and coaches. Once again - trying to preserve some face and honor, keeping some obscure made out of thin air traditions aka bullying - is being observed here. "The rikishi is below makushita so that is why we would not identify him." What a stupid excuse. Worse it goes unchallenged by the kisha club cheerleaders. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, I am the Yokozuna said:

If we only had someone in the know amongst us to tell us which heya it might be. Why is this secrecy though. Baseball in Japan announced immediately the infected players and coaches. Once again - trying to preserve some face and honor, keeping some obscure made out of thin air traditions aka bullying - is being observed here. "The rikishi is below makushita so that is why we would not identify him." What a stupid excuse. Worse it goes unchallenged by the kisha club cheerleaders. 

And the reason you absolutely need to have this information is...? If the heya or the affected rikishi himself wishes to make it public, they should of course be free to do so (and one could well be doubtful that the Kyokai would let them), but as it stands I see no grounds for demanding that the Kyokai should publicize a particular member's medical status as long as it doesn't actually affect anybody in the public at large. And no matter if you think it's a "stupid excuse", unsalaried rikishi in makushita and below simply aren't considered public figures so I'm not quite sure what you expect the press club to do here. Set out to violate privacy rules that exist for good reason?

Edited by Asashosakari
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, robnplunder said:

 

 

It is reported that the stable in question has about 10 rikishi.   That narrows it down.  (Sigh...)

http://heyaaz.nagioff.com/2020/2020.html 

That does narrow it down.  Arashio and Minato both have 10 rikishi.  However, Asahiyama, Azumazeki and Nakagawa have 9 rikishi and Asakayama, Isenoumi, Minezaki, Nishonoseki, Tagonoura and Tomozuna have 11 rikishi.  (Arashio had 11 but Sokokurai retired).

Edited by sumojoann

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, sumojoann said:

http://heyaaz.nagioff.com/2020/2020.html 

That does narrow it down.  Arashio and Minato both have 10 rikishi.  However, Asahiyama, Azumazeki and Nakagawa have 9 rikishi and Asakayama, Isenoumi, Minezaki, Nishonoseki, Tagonoura and Tomozuna have 11 rikishi.  (Arashio had 11 but Sokokurai retired).

Arashio incidentally is the heya shown as keiko example, to report that keiko now is stopped in the unnamed heya. https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2020/04/12/kiji/20200411s00005000401000c.html

The 10 narrows it down differently though: it is at least 10 (likely more), including sekitori: https://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/sports/sumou/1812789/

(still fits Arashio)

Edited by Akinomaki
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Don't let the title mislead you. There's some relevant info here:

 

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Posted (edited)

These are my thoughts reagrding the  chances of upcoming bashos being held (either with or without audience participation). They are just personal observations and I'm sure there will be at least some disagreement with them. 

Natsu:  Cancelled. I doubt if anyone believes that this will go on as scheduled.. 

Nagoya: Possible but still extremely doubtful. 

Aki: First chance at return to normal. If there are no Covid positives among rikishis, maybe another basho without an audience?

Kyushu-: This is when I believe ozumo as we know it will be back.. However, depending on how much control of the pandemic there may be at that time, I  may be overly optimistic. :-(

 

Edited by sekitori
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34 minutes ago, sekitori said:

These are my thoughts reagrding the  chances of upcoming bashos being held (either with or without audience participation). They are just personal observations and I'm sure there will be at least some disagreement with them. 

Natsu:  Cancelled. I doubt if anyone believes that this will go on as scheduled.. 

Nagoya: Possible but still extremely doubtful. 

Aki: First chance at return to normal. If there are no Covid positives among rikishis, maybe another basho without an audience?

Kyushu-: This is when I believe ozumo as we know it will be back.. However, depending on how much control of the pandemic there may be at that time, I  may be overly optimistic. :-(

 

Makes sense.   It will take a long time for Japan to put COVID 19 under control just like many other countries.   It may even take longer given their "soft" (relative to what the other countries are doing) approach to the virus.   

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On 13/04/2020 at 07:31, sekitori said:

These are my thoughts reagrding the  chances of upcoming bashos being held (either with or without audience participation). They are just personal observations and I'm sure there will be at least some disagreement with them. 

Natsu:  Cancelled. I doubt if anyone believes that this will go on as scheduled.. 

Nagoya: Possible but still extremely doubtful. 

Aki: First chance at return to normal. If there are no Covid positives among rikishis, maybe another basho without an audience?

Kyushu-: This is when I believe ozumo as we know it will be back.. However, depending on how much control of the pandemic there may be at that time, I  may be overly optimistic. :-(

 

Personally I don't think we'll see another basho until there is a vaccine available. That could be as early as September or not until next year. 

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The rikishi-kai after banzuke publication is canceled, it was planned for the 28th. Enough masks for all heya have been distributed at the shisho-kai on the 3rd. The present measures and talks of what to do will go on till May 6th, when the state of emergency is scheduled to end, and then they'll decide if they cancel the basho. http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202004150000633.html

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Tatsunami-beya had donated cloth to make yukata with heya and rikishi design to the locals of Tsukuba-mirai city to make about 2500 masks for nursery school kids.

lif2004150092-n1.jpgo origin_1.jpgo

local NHK

1070009401_20200415122912_s.jpgvid

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Posted (edited)
On 15/04/2020 at 16:41, Akinomaki said:

The rikishi-kai after banzuke publication is canceled, it was planned for the 28th. Enough masks for all heya have been distributed at the shisho-kai on the 3rd. The present measures and talks of what to do will go on till May 6th, when the state of emergency is scheduled to end, and then they'll decide if they cancel the basho.

Also canceled are the YDC keiko soken on May 2nd and the regular violence prevention courses for the NSK members on the 6th. https://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/sports/sumou/1818891/

Edit: and tomorrow the regular Friday NSK executive meeting is canceled for the 2nd week in a row. https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202004160000612.html

Edited by Akinomaki
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The NSK wants to wait till the last moment to decide if they cancel the Natsu basho or not - last basho it was decided 1 week before the start of the basho. Shibatayama on NHK: "In sumo the dohyo edge is important (and the turnaround at the last moment)". NHK pays the NSK 500 million yen per basho for broadcasting rights - they like to know about it in advance. http://www.zakzak.co.jp/spo/news/200418/spn2004180004-n1.html

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Posted (edited)

One thing, that does not get discussed here is the stigma in Japan in the community if anyone has been found to be infected with some serious disease. E.g. if one of your neighbors gets infected with A, then their family would be forever associated with that disease. So, many people would just avoid visiting a doctor at any cost for fear of being just known as the Covid-19 patients. There was the story on Japanese news about someone who was on Diamond Princess and tested negative but still being harassed by his neighbors. 

Second thing, that has not been discussed is that in Japan generally people try to not stand out by being ill or missing out on work, which is often mistaken for being considerate of others. If anyone has seen the full parks in recent weeks and full trains, then one could be convinced that Japanese are largely egoistic. 

Third thing, is that Japan has a test rate lower than countries of world economic stature such as Moldova, Nepal and Cuba. Even though that the prime minister Abe promised that they would increase tests performed to 20,000 a day, in the last week, in Japan there have been 25,000 PCR test performed. Less you test, fewer people you would find even though we see many people are asymptomatic and infecting vulnerable people. 

Forth thing, according to some article in Nature, Japan does not perform post mortem autopsies. Only 1.6% have undergone such procedure in mid 2010s. So, even if you die from an accompanying disease such as pneumonia,   it is hard to find if the Covid-19 really triggered it if no one is testing. So, now the cases which are announced as deaths from coronavirus have to do only with people who tested positive before their passing. I read also that Japan reports pneumonia deaths every three year, conveniently next report is due in 2 years. 

Fifth thing, as @Pandaazuma correctly points out, but since has disappeared, that in 2011 there was fingerprinting at Japan and worries that Japan was trying to cover up the real tragedy at Fukushima. He, unfortunately, does not recall that only when a field team from IAAE was about to visit the plant site, the Japanese government changed the story - from just steam to meltdown at two reactors. Almost everyone I knew left the country or Tokyo area at that time. Sumo-related, I know for a fact that Naruto-oyakata, a proud Japanese now, fled Tokyo then (my source is someone who hosted him). I am sure at that time many other masculine rikishis had fled Tokyo as well.

Sixth thing, Japan's constitution does not allow for US or EU styled lockdowns. So, there are just recommendations and urges by the government and they rely on the local, prefectural, governments to take on the initiative. But unfortunately Koike in Tokyo is as indecisive as the prime minister. At first no worries and messages such as "cherry viewing is to Japanese what hugging is to Italians", and no hanami bans in the first weeks to worried looks and message just right after Olympics were postponed. By the way, no bans on travelers from China and Wuhan were imposed even though the virus was known to be circulating there etc because Japanese wanted to cash in on the Chinese travellers during the Lunar New Year travels.............Government and so on could be accused of derelict of duty. 

Seven thing, the last time any embassy recommended leaving the country immediately was in 2011. One of the European embassies in their newsletter accused Japan of providing false information in March (I do not have the link anymore), which was last observed in 2011. 

Eight things, despite the Japanese pride in their healthcare system, it seems it is rather unprepared to tackles a crisis such as pandemic. Not enough ICU beds, not enough ventillators. So what do you then? Many hospitals turn away patients for fear of being seen as a hospital with a Covid 19 patient or not being prepared to treat one. 4 months have passed and instead of taking lessons from S. Korea, Taiwan, who had endured SARS pandemics, Japan just wasted tame on identifying clusters and trying to keep on hosting the Olympics in July. Tokyo is at 271% occupation rate for ICU beds at the beginning of the second week of the emergency proclamation. 

And many others but this is sumo forum, so:

I read most posts on Twitter related to the infected rikishi - most people miraculously tend to agree that the silence from NSK on the matter - who the rikishi is and which the beya - is astounding and resembles the silence during the yaocho scandal. In my mind and my experience with Japan, it has to do with "who is going to pay for it?" question and NSK does not want to lose any income from NHK so I believe they would push for Natsu basho at any cost. (Why it matters - NSK is a public interest incorporated organization/foundation - so if they hide the information, the public interest might be their profit only!)

Anyhow, I just read this story from Yahoo JP that during the Taiwan (under Japanese occupation at that time) jungyo in April 1918, three rikishis got infected with Spanish flu and passed away. More than 20 rikishes fell ill from the disease, which was known for some time as sumo flu. 

Edited by I am the Yokozuna
Number of test promised by Abe is 100,000 but 20,000; Spanish flu was not in 2018 but in 1918
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On 12/04/2020 at 09:10, Akinomaki said:
On 12/04/2020 at 03:08, sumojoann said:

Arashio and Minato both have 10 rikishi.

Asakayama, Isenoumi, Minezaki, Nishonoseki, Tagonoura and Tomozuna have 11 rikishi.  (Arashio had 11 but Sokokurai retired).

Arashio incidentally is the heya shown as keiko example, to report that keiko now is stopped in the unnamed heya. https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2020/04/12/kiji/20200411s00005000401000c.html

The 10 narrows it down differently though: it is at least 10 (likely more), including sekitori: https://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/sports/sumou/1812789/

(still fits Arashio)

The heya in question has several sekitori

and no yokozuna or ozeki http://www.news-postseven.com/archives/20200420_1557068.html

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1 hour ago, I am the Yokozuna said:

during the Taiwan (under Japanese occupation at that time) jungyo in April 2018,

A lot to digest in your post, maybe too much to make a comment on, but I should point out a typo: it should be "1918".

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20 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

The heya in question has several sekitori

and no yokozuna or ozeki http://www.news-postseven.com/archives/20200420_1557068.html

That narrows down to Tokitsukaze, Hakkaku, Oitekaze, Kise, Takadagawa, Isegahama, Kokonoe, Isenoumi, Sadogatake, Tomozuna, Tatsunami, Arashio, Oguruma (and Takasago? is Asanoyama Ozeki? is Asabenkei sekitori?)

In bold, 3 heyas have around 10 rikishi

Underlined, 2 additional have 15 (still about 10 in a broader sense)

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Nantonoyama said:

and Takasago? is Asanoyama Ozeki?

Asanoyama is promoted with the rijikai decision, the day of the dentatsu-shiki - definitely not Takasago

Edited by Akinomaki
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