Corona and sumo

[Katsunorifuji]

At this point I’d say I’m pretty confident we will see a July basho but without spectators. Japan has closed up but I can’t see the state of emergency lasting through the July basho dates especially if it has been pushed back two weeks. Another month and I think more and more Japanese people will be getting restless and wanting to open the economy back up again. Elected officials will feel pressure so that’s what we will move towards. So we’ll see the state of emergency extended once more through June 15 and then things gradually open back up again. 

[I am the Yokozuna]

@Kintamayama kudos for guessing that the basho won't happen. I am surprised by the measures taken by NSK. How would they cope financially? Would they receive any support from the government? The baseball association was reported to aim for July restart of the baseball championship. I could not hear what they said on the news about the football season. 

Hopefully, people like Tomokaze would be able to rest and recuperate more thoroughly.

[Akinomaki]

The rikishi approach towards the virus shown by Kototsurugi does not look wise

o

But the sumo jinku text (by the former editor-in-chief of Baseball Magazine - also for sumo magazines) gives the (sung) proper sumo rules to avoid the three crowding densities - san-mitsu 3密, the onomatopoeic slogan for them in Japan is: むんむん (mun-mun -  mippei 密閉 closed environments) - ぎゅうぎゅう (gyuu-gyuu - misshuu 密集 crowded places) - がやがや (gaya-gaya - missetsu 密接 close contact)

the usual critical areas in an average heya

o

Edited May 5, 2020 by Akinomaki

[Akinomaki]

I think we need a dozen moderators to split the sumo unrelated off-topic in this thread off to the proper sub-forum.

The cause of thread implosion like with HF1 is still not understood - but just to be safe and preserve this unique topic, I recommend to lock it and start with a new thread "Really sumo and corona"

[Rocks]

Is there no separate thread about the basho cancellation?

Also, why the heck did it take so long to come to the very obvious conclusion the basho should be cancelled? Why wasn't this cancelled weeks ago?

 

 

[Nantonoyama]

7 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Also, why the heck did it take so long to come to the very obvious conclusion the basho should be cancelled? Why wasn't this cancelled weeks ago?

 

 

I am no expert of japanese culture, but as far as I untersand, face-saving is a key factor. Cancel a basho because the state of emergency is extended is a perfectly acceptable excuse and doesn't require the NSK to take a decision on its own, that might be critisised by some (no idea who) as the wrong one.

[Randomitsuki]

4 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

I think we need a dozen moderators to split the sumo unrelated off-topic in this thread off to the proper sub-forum.

The cause of thread implosion like with HF1 is still not understood - but just to be safe and preserve this unique topic, I recommend to lock it and start with a new thread "Really sumo and corona"

It took a single moderator coming out of sumo hiatus, and two hours of time. I kicked out everything that I believe only to be of tangential relation to sumo. I might have made some questionable judgments, but with 800+ posts things like that can happen.

There's now an off-topic thread for that, called "General Corona Banter". Please try to have your discussions about Covid numbers, other sports, and particularly about Sweden over there.

Thank you.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Randomitsuki

[Sasanishiki]

9 hours ago, Nantonoyama said:

I am no expert of japanese culture, but as far as I untersand, face-saving is a key factor. Cancel a basho because the state of emergency is extended is a perfectly acceptable excuse and doesn't require the NSK to take a decision on its own, that might be critisised by some (no idea who) as the wrong one.

It was the same with the Olympics. To make the decision and have to apologise for the problems that it has caused is perhaps less palatable then to bow to external pressures causing something to happen and then you have no choice (and it's not your fault).  

[Yamanashi]

9 hours ago, Randomitsuki said:

It took a single moderator coming out of sumo hiatus, and two hours of time. I kicked out everything that I believe only to be of tangential relation to sumo. I might have made some questionable judgments, but with 800+ posts things like that can happen.

There's now an off-topic thread for that, called "General Corona Banter". Please try to have your discussions about Covid numbers, other sports, and particularly about Sweden over there.

Thank you.

So, just to be super-clear here, where do we post about Swedish sumo?

[Akinomaki]

54 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

So, just to be super-clear here, where do we post about Swedish sumo?

In the amateur sumo sub forum - it has no general corona thread yet

[Akinomaki]

Sponichi after the 1 billion yen minus for Haru gives an estimate of way over 3 billion yen loss of income for the NSK now, with the complete cancellation of Natsu and another empty following basho there will be 3 basho in a row without ticket sales - and no jungyo this year till the winter one in December.

Pay reduction for the salaried NSK members is one problem that may happen and make their living difficult, the other are the maintenance costs the NSK pays each heya for each of the 6 main basho of the year: 115 000 yen for each rikishi, 45 000 to maintain the keiko grounds and more. In 2011 this was payed when the basho was canceled, this time it is not yet decided if the heya will get those sums. https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2020/05/06/kiji/20200505s00005000307000c.html

The heya gets monthly sums per rikishi as well - these will be unaffected.

Another thing to be payed per basho is the mochi-kyuukin bonus of the sekitori - this surely will be scrapped for the canceled Natsu basho.

Edited May 6, 2020 by Akinomaki

[Eikokurai]

14 hours ago, Rocks said:

Is there no separate thread about the basho cancellation?

Also, why the heck did it take so long to come to the very obvious conclusion the basho should be cancelled? Why wasn't this cancelled weeks ago?

 

 

What would have been the point? As I argued earlier on the forum, a honbasho held in Tokyo is bread and butter for the Kyokai. They could start one tomorrow without much prep. All honbasho use a standard template and timetable, everyone involved lives around the corner and all know their job, and the Kyokai owns the venue. Without spectators it’s even easier. No need to worry about food and beverage logistics or venue security. There was really no value to cancelling it earlier, so why bother?

Edited May 6, 2020 by Eikokurai

[Morty]

1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

What would have been the point? As I argued earlier on the forum, a honbasho held in Tokyo is bread and butter for the Kyokai. They could start one tomorrow without much prep. All honbasho use a standard template and timetable, everyone involved lives around the corner and all know their job, and the Kyokai owns the venue. Without spectators it’s even easier. No need to worry about food and beverage logistics or venue security. There was really no value to cancelling it earlier, so why bother?

They would need a few days to build the Dohyo and then go through the blessing ceremonies etc. But other than that you are right, a Tokyo basho would be very easy to run at short notice

[robnplunder]

3 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Sponichi after the 1 billion yen minus for Haru gives an estimate of way over 3 billion yen loss of income for the NSK now, with the complete cancellation of Natsu and another empty following basho there will be 3 basho in a row without ticket sales - and no jungyo this year till the winter one in December.

Pay reduction for the salaried NSK members is one problem that may happen and make their living difficult, the other are the maintenance costs the NSK pays each heya for each of the 6 main basho of the year: 115 000 yen for each rikishi, 45 000 to maintain the keiko grounds and more. In 2011 this was payed when the basho was canceled, this time it is not yet decided if the heya will get those sums. https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2020/05/06/kiji/20200505s00005000307000c.html

The heya gets monthly sums per rikishi as well - these will be unaffected.

Another thing to be payed per basho is the mochi-kyuukin bonus of the sekitori - this surely will be scrapped for the canceled Natsu basho.

Did they make money from the last basho?  How much did they make or lose?   

I would think the July basho may happen without audience.   The loss can mount.    I think the pay cut is given.  ( In earlier post, I was just kidding about 30% reduction in the amount Chanko one can eat.   Make that 50%.  Meat is served only on Thursday.  Gruel on weekends.  )

[Eikokurai]

1 hour ago, Morty said:

They would need a few days to build the Dohyo and then go through the blessing ceremonies etc. But other than that you are right, a Tokyo basho would be very easy to run at short notice

True. I forgot about the dohyo thing.

[Akinomaki]

 

 

4 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Did they make money from the last basho?  How much did they make or lose? 

1 billion yen less than usual is what the articles keep reporting. That is much more than their yearly profit.

On 24/03/2020 at 09:53, Akinomaki said:

For the 5th (and last) year a profit for the NSK: due to pay rise for the rikishi, 189 million less than last year, 317 million yen.

Edit: the usual business earnings per year of the NSK are close to 12 billion yen

Edited May 6, 2020 by Akinomaki

[Eikokurai]

You’d have to think sumo would be near the front of any government bailout queue if times get too tight, given its prominence as the unofficial national sport and cultural heritage. It’s run with government oversight anyway, no?

[robnplunder]

2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

You’d have to think sumo would be near the front of any government bailout queue if times get too tight, given its prominence as the unofficial national sport and cultural heritage. It’s run with government oversight anyway, no?

That depends on how many NSK officials went to elementary school with Abe ... .   Yeah, I would think NSK will get the financial help if it comes to that.  BTW, Japan leads the world in total debt by far.  I wonder how long they can keep printing money without serous consequence. 

[yorikiried by fate]

10 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

True. I forgot about the dohyo thing.

I mean there simply must be something like www.dohyo-over-night.com, it's the internet after all!

[Akinomaki]

21 hours ago, Morty said:

They would need a few days to build the Dohyo and then go through the blessing ceremonies etc. But other than that you are right, a Tokyo basho would be very easy to run at short notice

They could build the doyho and put the ready one underground, instead of the used up one, which they get back up to demolish and build the new one on top. That would save several days and just leave the dohyo matsuri to do the day before the start of the basho - but maybe the dohyo crumbles and deteriorates underground and the rikishi would complain about having to fight on a dohyo with best before date expired.

[Akinomaki]

On 06/05/2020 at 08:21, Akinomaki said:

Sponichi after the 1 billion yen minus for Haru gives an estimate of way over 3 billion yen loss of income for the NSK now, with the complete cancellation of Natsu and another empty following basho there will be 3 basho in a row without ticket sales - and no jungyo this year till the winter one in December.

Tospo names 3.5 billion as the loss  - the standard 1 billion per empty basho, plus 0.5 for no NHK Natsu broadcast. http://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/sports/sumou/1841832/

Tokyo has about 3000 seats more to be left unsold each day http://hochi.news/articles/20200505-OHT1T50207.html

Thus it likely will be a bigger loss than the 1 billion for Haru, and for Natsu also the kensho are canceled, which add a bit more: Haru with a bit over 1000 kensho brought about 10 million yen for the NSK

On 30/05/2019 at 14:48, Akinomaki said:

the cost per kensho for the sponsors goes up by 8000Yen to 70 000.

the NSK takes the rest: nearly double now: 4700 more to 10 000Yen.

Edited May 7, 2020 by Akinomaki

[Kintamayama]

On 05/05/2020 at 22:41, Randomitsuki said:

It took a single moderator coming out of sumo hiatus, and two hours of time. I kicked out everything that I believe only to be of tangential relation to sumo. I might have made some questionable judgments, but with 800+ posts things like that can happen.

There's now an off-topic thread for that, called "General Corona Banter". Please try to have your discussions about Covid numbers, other sports, and particularly about Sweden over there.

Thank you.

Was my post promising, nay, prophesizing  there would be no May basho left intact? Asking for a friend..

[Adil]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Was my post promising, nay, prophesizing  there would be no May basho left intact? Asking for a friend..

You will find your farm in the mail. As for the mango sorbet, you'll get it after Kyokutaisei starts wearing a yellow mawashi again (that was what got you running to your freezer in the first place, haha).

[Yamanashi]

9 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Was my post promising, nay, prophesizing  there would be no May basho left intact? Asking for a friend..

Moderators, can we split off an "unseemly gloating" thread to Off Topic? (Maybe pair it with "Swedish sumo"?)

Edited May 8, 2020 by Yamanashi
Me notyp gud

[Kintamayama]

8 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Moderators, can we split off an "unseemly gloating" thread to Off Topic? (Maybe pair it with "Swedish sumo"?)

As some clever guy keeps saying here every time I get things right - "Even a broken watch is correct twice a day"

Edited May 8, 2020 by Kintamayama