John Gunning

Official now. First yokozuna-ozeki since 1982

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Just announced.

The west yokozuna will be yokozuna-ozeki in March.

 

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In Aki 1981 there wasn't even one Ozeki??So there were 2 Yokozekis then? Wow.

Edited by Kintamayama

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I just saw your post about it on Reddit and came here.

Does this mean anything in practice, aside from however they'll write that down on the banzuke? Does that mean the 結びの一番/musubi-no-ichiban will always be the yokozuna that didn't get picked to be "yokozeki"?

Edited by dada78641

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6 hours ago, John Gunning said:

The west yokozuna will be yokozuna-ozeki in March.

It will be interesting to see whether Kakuryu's one extra day of participation in the Hatsubasho will secure him the East Yokozuna slot, or if Hakuho's yusho in Kyushu plus having the same number of wins in January as Kakuryu will allow Hakuho retain the East slot...  But perhaps you already know the answer to that.

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Nikkan’s article says the west Yokozuna will be the east ozeki, Takakeisho will be the west Ozeki

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21 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

Nikkan’s article says the west Yokozuna will be the east ozeki, Takakeisho will be the west Ozeki

How is that supposed to work? Kakuryu's name written twice on the banzuke? I doubt it...

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2 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

How is that supposed to work? Kakuryu's name written twice on the banzuke? I doubt it...

It will be written once with both the yokozuna and ozeki characters above it.

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24 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

How is that supposed to work? Kakuryu's name written twice on the banzuke? I doubt it...

Maybe it’ll be like one of those trick images that changes depending on the angle you view it from.

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27 minutes ago, John Gunning said:

Maybe it’ll be like one of those trick images that changes depending on the angle you view it from.

Like most kanji then.

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30 minutes ago, Kamitsuumi said:

I don’t see any mention of Takakeisho being the west Ozeki in the Nikkan Sports article

There isn't any.

Takakeisho will be ozeki east and Hakuho or Kakuryu yokozeki-ozeki west.

 

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It says Takakeishou will be the only Ozeki and the west Ozeki rank will be vacant. 貴景勝の1人大関で西大関が空位となる

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In the article I found this to be interesting:

例外として大関1人でも横綱が兼ねない場所があった。55年初、春、秋の3場所で大関三根山1人で西の大関は空位となったが「なし」のまま。

'In other examples, there was a basho with 1 Ozeki but the Yokozuna didn't take on the dual role. In 1955, the hatsu, haru, and aki bashos all just had Mitsuneyama as the only Ozeki with west Ozeki vacant (or 'nashi')'

I was intrigued if they actually wrote なし on the actual banzuke so I tracked one down but there is only a very slim gap that just hints at the absence of an Ozeki in the west part and the title of Yokozuna is written broadly:

C-jnW4yUwAEzFJz?format=jpg&name=medium

Just as a comparison, this is how the Yokozuna/Ozeki combined rank is normally written

m88374471017_1.jpg?1542853583

 

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5 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

In the article I found this to be interesting:

例外として大関1人でも横綱が兼ねない場所があった。55年初、春、秋の3場所で大関三根山1人で西の大関は空位となったが「なし」のまま。

'In other examples, there was a basho with 1 Ozeki but the Yokozuna didn't take on the dual role. In 1955, the hatsu, haru, and aki bashos all just had Mitsuneyama as the only Ozeki with west Ozeki vacant (or 'nashi')'

I was intrigued if they actually wrote なし on the actual banzuke so I tracked one down but there is only a very slim gap that just hints at the absence of an Ozeki in the west part and the title of Yokozuna is written broadly: 

Wikipedia spoke of 2 occasions, the 1st lasted 2 basho - one basho in the middle actually had an ozeki again. I wondered how those nashi-banzuke would look.

On 21/01/2020 at 08:49, Akinomaki said:

In Edo times they had the option to have a PR kanban-ozeki, e.g. for only one event, just some big dude. The lists of the occasions with 1 or no ozeki on the banzuke: https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/大関#一人大関

Maedayama in such a time was promoted from komusubi directly to ozeki (there were plenty of yokozuna though). WikiP gives 2 cases where none of the yokozuna was put on the banzuke as yokozeki like usually this

926d6f9a181cbea4e1a9a3e4d8575000.jpg

- http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=195501#M - Kagamisato is haridashi yokozuna

- http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Banzuke.aspx?b=195509#M - 2 haridashi yokozuna

Edit: I made so many additions, that I put them in a new post and this one back to what it was

Edited by Akinomaki

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1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Wikipedia spoke of 2 occasions, the 1st lasted 2 basho - one basho in the middle actually had an ozeki again. I wondered how those nashi-banzuke would look.

The odd thing then in the DB is: there were 3 normal yokozuna and 1 extra HD yokozuna for the 2 basho in the first occasion (first Kagamisato, then Yoshibayama): one of the 2 west yokozuna had to have been the yokozeki - maybe they couldn't decide which it should be, Y1w or Y2w? The 2nd occasion shown by Tsuchinoninjin above (bigger, but not better: twimg/media/C-jnW4yUwAEzFJz.jpg:large) - Banzuke=195509 - had 2 haridashi yokozuna.

my other posts on this from the discussion thread (for next time, here easier to find) - the questions still remain, maybe an answer comes later

On 21/01/2020 at 21:23, Akinomaki said:

If (very likely) Goeido gets demoted  - and (very likely) Asanoyama does nor get promoted, we'll have a yokozuna-ozeki again after 38 years. Then there had been YO for nearly a year: first it was YW  Wakanohana, for 2 basho, then Chiyonofuji got promoted to yokozuna (west) and both proper yokozuna became YO, Wakanohana haridashi. For next basho Kotokaze was promoted to ozeki and Kitanoumi stayed YO, now as YW, first as YE, Chiyonofuji was haridashi. After Hatsu 1982, Takanosato was promoted and there were 2 ozeki again. http://www.tokyo-sports.co.jp/column/news-column/1699623/

1 existing ozeki thus is always ozeki east, and the (always proper?) west yokozuna has to fill in as ozeki west. Now we have no haridashi anymore, but only 2 yokozuna - if we had 4, could have been the YW2 YO? And what if we have only one Y, YE? Will the ozeki still be east or will it be the yokozuna?

On 28/01/2020 at 18:54, Akinomaki said:

Kakuryu hasn't retired today - I won't get an answer to my question. I guess the (usually) yokozuna east would become yokozeki west, if ozeki is still considered the core top rank - for better balance, yokozuna east and the next rank moved to west would be logical, but why should that be the basis for the decision

Edited by Akinomaki

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On 30/01/2020 at 02:58, Tsuchinoninjin said:

例外として大関1人でも横綱が兼ねない場所があった。55年初、春、秋の3場所で大関三根山1人で西の大関は空位となったが「なし」のまま。

'In other examples, there was a basho with 1 Ozeki but the Yokozuna didn't take on the dual role. In 1955, the hatsu, haru, and aki bashos all just had Mitsuneyama as the only Ozeki with west Ozeki vacant (or 'nashi')'

1955 was the first post war situation like this, reason for refusal was: yokozuna was (established as) the highest rank now and no longer just a title - it felt like a kind of demotion. For the next occasion, Natsu 1959 it was decided that "the ozeki rank must not  be removed from the banzuke sheet", and the Yokozuna-ozeki rank was reinstated.   http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/01/29/0013071948.shtml

Aki 1981 with 2 YO, west Chiyonofuji and east Kitanoumi, who also was YO on the last such occasion, Hatsu 1982

sum20013005000001-p1.jpgo

Edited by Akinomaki

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