Kaninoyama

Goeido to Retire

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Yahoo Japan News reporting that Goeido's intai is imminent:

https://news.yahoo.co.jp/pickup/6349459

Summary translation:

Goeido, who lost his Ozeki rank during the Hatsu Basho, made clear his intent to retire on January 27. His stable master, Sakaigawa Oyakata, conveyed the intent to the Japan Sumo Association.

Intai will be formally determined once procedures, such as Toshiyori Eligibility, have been completed. 

Goeido's fall from Ozeki was sealed during the Hatsu Basho, his 9th  as kadoban, following a loss on Day 12 to first-time Sekiwake Asanoyama. 

After the loss, Sakaigawa Oyakata told him, "Next basho will be in your hometown of Osaka. If you're going to give it a go, fight to the end this basho." Goeido returned to the ring, and while he picked up a win on Day 13, consecutive losses on Days 14 and 15 left him with a 5 Win 10 Loss record. "I gave it everything I had," said Goeido, reflecting on his effort. He did not initially state his intention for the Spring Basho.

[Paragraph listing his career highlights] 

Edited by Kaninoyama
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Chris gould reporting the same thing on youtube. Nikkan reporting it as well now. The pressure the jo-i regulars are putting on the older top dogs is greater and greater I think he knows ten wins is a long shot and wanted to retire as an ozeki. The yokozuna can buy more time but I wouldn't be surprised if both retire this year as well. https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202001270000746.html

Edited by Rainoyama

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Just seen this on Twitter. I really thought he’d give the Ozekiwake basho a shot in front of his home crowd. They’d have given a great send off no matter how he performed. I was always fairly ambivalent about Goeido, but it’s always sad to see a veteran retire. You get used to certain faces being there at every dohyo-iri and he’s been around longer than many.
 

The changing of the guard is now officially underway. (I’m not counting Harumafuji since that was a while ago and a forced retirement, and Kisenosato was a freak injury rather than the decline of an aging athlete.)

Edited by Eikokurai

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49 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

Chris gould reporting the same thing on youtube. Nikkan reporting it as well now. The pressure the jo-i regulars are putting on the older top dogs is greater and greater I think he knows ten wins is a long shot and wanted to retire as an ozeki. The yokozuna can buy more time but I wouldn't be surprised if both retire this year as well. https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202001270000746.html

Does he retire as an Ozeki? A grey area I suppose. Everyone knows he’s lost his rank but the next banzuke hasn’t been made yet. 

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Just now, Eikokurai said:

Does he retire as an Ozeki? A grey area I suppose. Everyone knows he’s lost his rank but the next banzuke hasn’t been made yet. 

I think so. He would be demoted were he to continue, but by retiring before the banzuke committee meets his last rank is at ozeki. The rank he last fought at. The ol', "You can't fire me...I quit!" Kudos to the man. お疲れ様でした。

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14 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Does he retire as an Ozeki? A grey area I suppose. Everyone knows he’s lost his rank but the next banzuke hasn’t been made yet. 

He's still an ozeki until the banzuke for Osaka is published. By retiring before the banzuke committee meeting on Wednesday, his last pubished rank on the banzuke was ozeki.

As I've posted elsewhere, this is a very old-school decision; one which raises Goeido's legacy quite considerably in my view.

Edit: Ah, Otokonoyama beat me to it.

Edited by RabidJohn

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1 minute ago, Otokonoyama said:

I think so. He would be demoted were he to continue, but by retiring before the banzuke committee meets his last rank is at ozeki. The rank he last fought at. The ol', "You can't fire me...I quit!" Kudos to the man. お疲れ様でした。

Goeido has spent his Ozeki career gaming the system. Why stop now? :-)

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6 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Goeido has spent his Ozeki career gaming the system. Why stop now? :-)

Goeido was at peak performance when he put together his 32/45 run, and very lucky that they gave him the nod for ozeki promotion on the strength of it. So did he spend his career "gaming the system", or was he rather forced to perform at the ceiling of his abilities to hang on to his rank by his fingernails for over 6 years (which is top 10 ozeki longevity, btw)? 

Sure, he was never the greatest ozeki (although when he was fit he was dangerous to anyone, and his only yusho was a zensho) and I'm sure he knows it. Stopping now will garner more respect, which he will need as oyakata.

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Just now, RabidJohn said:

Goeido was at peak performance when he put together his 32/45 run, and very lucky that they gave him the nod for ozeki promotion on the strength of it. So did he spend his career "gaming the system", or was he rather forced to perform at the ceiling of his abilities to hang on to his rank by his fingernails for over 6 years (which is top 10 ozeki longevity, btw)? 

Sure, he was never the greatest ozeki (although when he was fit he was dangerous to anyone, and his only yusho was a zensho) and I'm sure he knows it. Stopping now will garner more respect, which he will need as oyakata.

I don't see those things as mutually exclusive. Gaming the kadoban system enabled him to hang on by his fingernails. They (can) go hand in hand.

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1 minute ago, Eikokurai said:

I don't see those things as mutually exclusive. Gaming the kadoban system enabled him to hang on by his fingernails. They (can) go hand in hand.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but "gaming the kadoban system" comes across as belittling Goeido's achievements. All ozeki have access to the same system. Kotoshogiku was fairly good at it, but Tochinoshin and Takayasu haven't been able to make it work as well for them as Goeido has. I see that as admirable. Because Goeido was only just good enough for the rank, he had to try harder than others, and he succeeded.

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Just now, RabidJohn said:

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but "gaming the kadoban system" comes across as belittling Goeido's achievements. All ozeki have access to the same system. Kotoshogiku was fairly good at it, but Tochinoshin and Takayasu haven't been able to make it work as well for them as Goeido has. I see that as admirable. Because Goeido was only just good enough for the rank, he had to try harder than others, and he succeeded.

You can see it that way. I'm not a fan of post-retirement revisionism where everyone suddenly starts speaking of a rikishi in terms they didn't when he was active. Goeido never did enough to excite me, but nor did I dislike him. As I said in my earlier post, I was ambivalent.

Edited by Eikokurai

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This is what I was afraid of back when Kotoshogiku lost his rank. Fortunately it didn't happen in his case, and he kept on being a very entertaining wrestler for us to watch. I think because of that, I wasn't expecting Goeido to retire either.

Really a shame. Goeido was always dangerous, and I think he more than earned his stripes as Ozeki.

edit: just so we never forget, here's Goeido's Aki 2016 zensho yusho (SumoDB). His own personal career highlights reel.

 

Edited by dada78641
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Really shocked to see he wouldn't give it a shot in March.

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I can not say I was a huge Goeido fan but he was a good ozeki. Especially when you consider the era. Facing Kisenosato, Kakuryu, Harumafuji and Hakuho for most of those basho  getting a yusho meant going 3-1, at least, against them. A tall order. Yes, he had far too many 8s when he should have had 9s or 10s, but he was no slouch.

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Can't say I'm too surprised. Geek lost his rank when the field was much stronger while Goeido lost with a decimated/underperforming sanyaku and against four mid-level maegashira (and wasn't deemed worthy enough to be a roadblock for the last guy on the makuuchi banzuke nor to have the O-O match against Takakeisho).

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I'm not going to hold it against any ex-ozeki who wants to prolong their career by carrying on as a maegashira, but personally I'm glad to see him take the traditional route and go out at the top. He is in the all-time Top 10 for longest-serving ozeki and of course he'll always have that zensho-yusho. A fine career.

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Will Goeido have any kabu? But, as an former ozeki, he is allowed to be oyakata for 3 years using Goeido, isn’t it?

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3 minutes ago, code_number3 said:

Will Goeido have any kabu? But, as an former ozeki, he is allowed to be oyakata for 3 years using Goeido, isn’t it?

The news report translated by Kaninoyama says, "Intai will be formally determined once procedures, such as Toshiyori Eligibility, have been completed. " Maybe they are trying to find a kabu for him. He has not previously been reported as  owning a  kabu. But yes, as an ex-ozeki he can be Goeido Oyakata for three years.

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2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

You can see it that way. I'm not a fan of post-retirement revisionism where everyone suddenly starts speaking of a rikishi in terms they didn't when he was active. Goeido never did enough to excite me, but nor did I dislike him. As I said in my earlier post, I was ambivalent.

I don't think John is being revisionist, Goeido was totally fine as an ozeki and you can check up my post history on that, and several other people here I know had the same mindset. 

The requirements to stay ozeki are the clearest of any rank (2 makekoshi and you go down, 2 consecutive yusho and you go up) . It's always been confusing how harsh people had been on him since the vast majority of career ozeki have had very similar basho results.

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25 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

I don't think John is being revisionist, Goeido was totally fine as an ozeki and you can check up my post history on that, and several other people here I know had the same mindset. 

The requirements to stay ozeki are the clearest of any rank (2 makekoshi and you go down, 2 consecutive yusho and you go up) . It's always been confusing how harsh people had been on him since the vast majority of career ozeki have had very similar basho results.

I was talking about myself there. Perhaps that didn’t come across. I don’t like revisionism, so I’m not going to do the same and suddenly pretend I was a Goeido fan (or indeed a Goeido hater). I’ll feel his absence but I can’t see myself missing him per se. 

Edited by Eikokurai

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It used to be that ozeki demotions were relatively rare, now it is quite rare for those ozeki who failed to make Yokozuna to end their careers as ozeki.  Technically Goeido has ended his career as ozeki, the last ones prior to him were Kaio, Tochiazuma and Musoyama - and further back would be Hokutenyu, Asashio and Wakashimazu.

The struggle for kabu is obviously an issue, Kirishima was the first one to really continue after demotion (in fairly recent time) because of that.

Swami

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3 minutes ago, Swami said:

Technically Goeido has ended his career as ozeki, the last ones prior to him were Kaio, Tochiazuma and Musoyama

...although Tochiazuma made it a bit of a gamble by going the Ozekiwake route twice.

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I cheered for Goeido, and I don't really mind his decision to forego an extended career in the maegashira ranks. It seemed like he had been struggling with health and injury for a while. 

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