Hatsu 2020 Basho Discussion (SPOILERS)

[Sue 520]

15 hours ago, Jabbamaru said:

Shodai's yusho. Sure shot.

Once is a freak occurrence. Twice is a coincidence. Three times is a pattern.

I need to see Shodai do well in Osaka (or in May) before I'll start believing in him again.

[Kintamayama 45,527]

18 hours ago, The Fat Cyclist said:

You know that really wouldnt surprise me. I thought before his bout on day 1 that he had the look of someone who had had enough and would have much rather been somewhere else.

Also, his Oyakata died.  We tend to take these things lightly, but sometimes an Oyakata is more than a father. I think this is the case here.

[Kintamayama 45,527]

19 hours ago, Benihana said:

Character assassination!

 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

9 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Also, his Oyakata died.  We tend to take these things lightly, but sometimes an Oyakata is more than a father. I think this is the case here.

Yes, I made the same point yesterday. It’s easy to look at the stats and say he’s had a three-basho streak below the level expected of a Yokozuna, but numbers tell only half the story. His concentration was visibly off in September right after his Oyakata passed away and he may still be grieving for him. As you say, the man has played a father-figure role in his life for many years.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Eikokurai

[Rocks 1,809]

So strange to see Takayasu give up his rank this easily. Yes, he's injured. But so is everyone else.  Heck even Tochinoshin made some desperate last minute attempts to win matches and he's is much worse shape than Takayasu.

Still not seeing it for Shodai. He can lose 4 in a row easily after a loss.   Takakeisho has moved into automatic mode. Pushing wins out like widgets. Takakeisho keeps up like this and we could be seeing an all Yokozuna Dohyo-iri for the Olympics opening ceremony with Hakuho, Kakuryu and Takakeisho.

[Raishu 208]

36 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Yes, I made the same point yesterday. It’s easy to look at the stats and say he’s had a three-basho streak below the level expected of a Yokozuna, but numbers tell only half the story. His concentration was visibly off in September right after his Oyakata and he may still be grieving for him. As you say, the man has played a father-figure role in his life for many years.

I am sorry, usually I don't bite back after a discussion has died down, but please stick to the truth: I did not address his performance over the last three bashos! Clearly, it was about Kakuryu's decline over the last three years.

And again: if you can't perform up to Yokozuna standards, simply don't enter the basho (cite back problems as a reason and take your time to recover mentally).

And that's it from me.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

3 minutes ago, Raishu said:

I am sorry, usually I don't bite back after a discussion has died down, but please stick to the truth: I did not address his performance over the last three bashos! Clearly, it was about Kakuryu's decline over the last three years.

And again: if you can't perform up to Yokozuna standards, simply don't enter the basho (cite back problems as a reason and take your time to recover mentally).

And that's it from me.

My post wasn’t about you or what you said; it was about what I said. 

[Rainoyama 1,157]

This article made me laugh, Nikkan wrote a very short article just to say that as usual Endo didn't say anything when interviewed . 'I'm glad I won' 'I could concentrate well' were his only two answer again today... https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202001170000786.html

[Rainoyama 1,157]

And now a few quotes from sole leader Shodai.

Reflecting on today's win against former Ozeki Tochinoshin 'My tachiai was good. After the impact I could move forward a lot with my second step'

On being sole leader 'I'm feeling the pressure, there's a lot of guys with only one loss after all'

On the reasons of his good form 'It's not like I am in top condition... I really wonder why I'm able to keep winning like that ?" Shodai is currently weighting 170 kilos so up 5 kilos from his usual 165 kgs. https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/photonews/photonews_nsInc_202001170000684-1.html

 

[Raishu 208]

28 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

My post wasn’t about you or what you said; it was about what I said. 

My bad then. But that one was quite easy to misunderstand.

[ryafuji 815]

6 hours ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I think he's hoping to get one more win and secure his place in the division. Painful to watch.

Yes, zero wins would have seen him demoted to juryo, as we saw with Tomokaze. One or two and he might be ok. I'm sure that's the only reason he entered.

[Kaminariyuki 500]

6 hours ago, Philioyamfugi said:

 

Terinofuji looks like hes playing and may go zensho.

 

LOL, I seriously doubt this is very likely... But, stranger things have happened.

[Dwale 419]

As I've mentioned, Takakeisho's lateral movement is a big part of his effectiveness. Second time this basho he's pulled that sidestep at the bales and won from it.

Where the hell was that version of Goeido before? 

Shodai has a lot of potential, but I do not think he has the mental toughness to keep this streak alive to the end. We already know Takakeisho can perform under pressure, so he's my current pick. However, given how wild things has been, it really is up in the air. There's a lot of honbasho left and anything can happen in sumo.

[Thorbjarn 215]

2 hours ago, Raishu said:

I am sorry, usually I don't bite back after a discussion has died down, but please stick to the truth: I did not address his performance over the last three bashos! Clearly, it was about Kakuryu's decline over the last three years.

And again: if you can't perform up to Yokozuna standards, simply don't enter the basho (cite back problems as a reason and take your time to recover mentally).

And that's it from me.

I'm sorry to being really late to the party and I really don't want to stirr things back up. 

But is this really fair and accurate? Kakuryu had horribly bad luck with injuries, especially 2016 and 2017, but he had a really decent 2018 while he was under a lot of pressure and looked quite well last summer until news spread about his Oyakata dieing. Hasn't the (often illadvised) pulling always been a part of his Sumo? Not saying he was a prime-performance Dai Yokozuna, but he never was, tbf. 

I agree with you btw, I assume that he will retire very soon and that it's probably the time. His spirit seems broken this time, and reading about his history and path in Sumo I can sure see why. 

[dingo 1,294]

4 hours ago, Rainoyama said:

 

On being sole leader 'I'm feeling the pressure, there's a lot of guys with only one loss after all'

On the reasons of his good form 'It's not like I am in top condition... I really wonder why I'm able to keep winning like that ?" Shodai is currently weighting 170 kilos so up 5 kilos from his usual 165 kgs. https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/photonews/photonews_nsInc_202001170000684-1.html

 

This sounds exactly like he's in way over his head and will start his losing streak any day now. Unless Shodai's a master of deception which I somehow doubt...

[nelimw 80]

looking forward to Shodai vs Goeido and Takakeisho vs Abi tomorrow. Who yall got?

 

[YoungSumo 93]

Very exciting basho so far all throughout the banzuke. 

There aren't a lot of new recruits in jonokuchi but the three that are have a combined 8-1 record. The one loss being the result of two of the new recruits facing each other. Will be interesting to see how far these guys can climb together.

20 year old Mongolian Hokutenkai started his basho 3-0 in his first Sandamne appearance. He's now 16-1 total. His one loss coming to Murata in Hokutenkai's debut basho. Murata was a highly touted prospect himself, quickly reaching Makushita 1, but injuries sidelined him for a long time. Hokutenkai's debut basho was also the basho Murata returned and he hasn't lost since, outside of a play-off loss to Hokutenkai last basho. Could be the start of an interesting rivalry.

In Makushita we have 19 year old Kitanowaka making his first appearance in the division. Four straight kachikoshis followed up by a 3-0 start to this basho are some good stats. He might not be a clear cut pick to reach the highest ranks but so far he's been doing everything right. I'd say he's one to look out for. Someone who does seem to be pencilled in for greatness is 23 year old Motobayashi. Yesterday he picked up his third win of the basho, pushing his total record 24-0. Now only 3 wins away from tying Jokoryu's record of wins from debut its the question when he'll hit a wall, if he even will. There is also 19 year old Naya who has had a fast rise up the rankings and at 2-1 at Ms5 he might be making a serious run at a Juryo spot. 

Terunofuji's apparent return to form has him storming through the lower ranks and now bullying the guys in Juryo. Will we see Terunofuji at his pre-injury form? If thats the case he's coming back at the right time with the old guard like Hakuho, Kakuryu and Goeido inching ever closer to retirement.

The main dish has been especially entertaining in my opinion. With Hakuho and Kakuryu dropping out early in the tournament its anyone's game now. I'm really excited to see how this one plays out.

[CT3* 331]

Just now, YoungSumo said:

 Will we see Terunofuji at his pre-injury form?

Sadly, I don't think we'll ever see Terunofuji back at his pre-injury form. 

[Catalin B 13]

Terrible day for rikishi health.  One thing I am legitimately curious about: is the Kyokai known to ever take action or raise concern about the way cleansing rituals (such as yumitori-shiki) are performed amidst injury hell like we are currently experiencing?

Otherwise, one-armed Meisei and 1-and-1/2-armed Takayasu are painful to watch.

On the positive side, I've been enjoying Okinoumi's wrestling and Tokushoryu's spirited performance - he seems on track to prove himself in makuuchi after almost missing out on promotion from J1w, I hope he gets a KK.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

42 minutes ago, CT3* said:

Sadly, I don't think we'll ever see Terunofuji back at his pre-injury form. 

His oyakata was the commentator for makuuchi. Was not impressed with his sweet armpits.

[since_94 650]

It was awful to see Kizakiumi go tumbling out and land that way and then lie there motionless for what seemed like an eternity. When "help" finally arrived it was a ring attendant and a retired-sekitori-turned usher who helped him get up and "walk it off". No EMTs or sports medical staff in sight. Totally opposite in every regard to what should have happened with an athlete with what is potentially a life-changing neck injury. Immobilized locus of injury? Nope. Stretchered? Nope. They have no protocol in place. Except a hopelessly outdated ad hoc one aimed to make sure bouts stay on schedule so the TV news can air promptly at 6pm. As a fan, I am appalled. As a former lawyer, I smell liability.

 

 

 

[Kaminariyuki 500]

2 hours ago, nelimw said:

looking forward to Shodai vs Goeido and Takakeisho vs Abi tomorrow. Who yall got?

 

 

Takakeisho over Mr. Long Arms, and Goeido breaks Shodai's streak, because he's better than he's been looking and his back's now against the wall.

[Kaminariyuki 500]

2 hours ago, YoungSumo said:

Very exciting basho so far all throughout the banzuke. 

There aren't a lot of new recruits in jonokuchi but the three that are have a combined 8-1 record. The one loss being the result of two of the new recruits facing each other. Will be interesting to see how far these guys can climb together.

20 year old Mongolian Hokutenkai started his basho 3-0 in his first Sandamne appearance. He's now 16-1 total. His one loss coming to Murata in Hokutenkai's debut basho. Murata was a highly touted prospect himself, quickly reaching Makushita 1, but injuries sidelined him for a long time. Hokutenkai's debut basho was also the basho Murata returned and he hasn't lost since, outside of a play-off loss to Hokutenkai last basho. Could be the start of an interesting rivalry.

In Makushita we have 19 year old Kitanowaka making his first appearance in the division. Four straight kachikoshis followed up by a 3-0 start to this basho are some good stats. He might not be a clear cut pick to reach the highest ranks but so far he's been doing everything right. I'd say he's one to look out for. Someone who does seem to be pencilled in for greatness is 23 year old Motobayashi. Yesterday he picked up his third win of the basho, pushing his total record 24-0. Now only 3 wins away from tying Jokoryu's record of wins from debut its the question when he'll hit a wall, if he even will. There is also 19 year old Naya who has had a fast rise up the rankings and at 2-1 at Ms5 he might be making a serious run at a Juryo spot. 

Terunofuji's apparent return to form has him storming through the lower ranks and now bullying the guys in Juryo. Will we see Terunofuji at his pre-injury form? If thats the case he's coming back at the right time with the old guard like Hakuho, Kakuryu and Goeido inching ever closer to retirement.

The main dish has been especially entertaining in my opinion. With Hakuho and Kakuryu dropping out early in the tournament its anyone's game now. I'm really excited to see how this one plays out.

As I posted on Kintamayama's lower division thread, thanks for these insights. I don't have the time or resources to be this involved, so I appreciate some of you folks spoon feeding me stuff that alerts me to the folks battling their way up through the lower divisions. Please post again later in the bash with further developments if you're up to it.

[Koorifuu 1,020]

2 hours ago, YoungSumo said:

20 year old Mongolian Hokutenkai started his basho 3-0 in his first Sandamne appearance. He's now 16-1 total. His one loss coming to Murata in Hokutenkai's debut basho. Murata was a highly touted prospect himself, quickly reaching Makushita 1, but injuries sidelined him for a long time. Hokutenkai's debut basho was also the basho Murata returned and he hasn't lost since, outside of a play-off loss to Hokutenkai last basho. Could be the start of an interesting rivalry.

Great post!

Murata's bout from 0-0-6 in jonokuchi - essentially just to prevent him from going maezumo - was the stuff of legends and the best possible kickstarter of all time

OK, so now.. I'm sad that Tsurugisho might be injured. The man has been getting a lot of dubious bout decisions and facial reconstruction jobs since he arrived to makuuchi and now this...

[Tigerboy1966 1,474]

2 hours ago, YoungSumo said:

Someone who does seem to be pencilled in for greatness is 23 year old Motobayashi. Yesterday he picked up his third win of the basho, pushing his total record 24-0. Now only 3 wins away from tying Jokoryu's record

And he might well have to face Jokoryu to get that record as the latter is also unbeaten on 3-0.