Ishiura keiko violence - the next scandal

[Akinomaki 31,359]

18 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Ishiura and Hokaho have been questioned by the compliance bunch, the riji-kai will decide about the punishment they'll propose, for Ishiura suspension or going kyujo on his own are some possibilities.

Miyagino-oyakata has been questioned as well - but apparently not Hakuho. Tomorrow the compliance committee will make the proposal and the NSK will have an at-once riji-kai to decide about the punishment(s).  http://hochi.news/articles/20200108-OHT1T50126.html

[Katooshu 1,821]

I blame Hakuho 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Katooshu

[RabidJohn 1,084]

16 hours ago, Katooshu said:

I blame Hakuho 

You might be joking, but I've no doubt some elements of the Japanese press will take the opportunity to try getting a bit of mud to stick.  

Just when I thought Hakuho's rep was on the up with the NSK publicly backing him recently (re: Shibatayama's effective "He ain't done nuffin wrong, so tell him yerself!" to the YDC).

Like Kintamayama, I wish this sort of thing could be dealt with in house, but Ishiura put the kibosh on that by doing it in front of members of the public, very nearly all of whom have a camera in their hand at all times, smack bang in the middle of the anti-violence zeitgeist! Distinct lack of wisdom shown there by the small guy, but I don't expect wisdom from rikishi. The only good thing about this is Hakuho was also caught on camera promptly putting a stop to it. I hope the NSK backs him up again by emphasizing that fact. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by RabidJohn

[Akinomaki 31,359]

20 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Miyagino-oyakata has been questioned as well - but apparently not Hakuho. Tomorrow the compliance committee will make the proposal and the NSK will have an at-once riji-kai to decide about the punishment(s).

Ishiura gets a 20% pay reduction for one month, Hokaho a stern warning - and the one to blame for this scandal, Miyagino-oyakata gets a 20% pay reduction for 3 months. https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2020/01/09/kiji/20200109s00005000247000c.html

[Kintamayama 37,986]

12 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Ishiura gets a 20% pay reduction for one month, Hokaho a stern warning - and the one to blame for this scandal, Miyagino-oyakata gets a 20% pay reduction for 3 months. https://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2020/01/09/kiji/20200109s00005000247000c.html

Sensible. More than that and I would have gone into retirement. Enough of this politically correct crap. Life is becoming unbearable.

[Andreas21 163]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

... and the one to blame for this scandal, Miyagino-oyakata gets a 20% pay reduction for 3 months.

Phew! Not totally unexpected, but remarkable anyway. Puts well into focus what is special about Sumo. Ishiura is a 29 year old professional athlete and has somehow the social standing of a child.

[Akinomaki 31,359]

4 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Ishiura gets a 20% pay reduction for one month, Hokaho a stern warning - and the one to blame for this scandal, Miyagino-oyakata gets a 20% pay reduction for 3 months.

Ishiura apart from a 280 000Yen fine also got a stern warning, the fine for Miyagino is in sum 619 200Yen - twice that of last time, last Haru, when Hakuho did the clapping at his yusho interview.

The reasons for the lenient punishment is the absence of malice, in particular:

1. It was sudden violence during usual keiko
2. Nobody was injured
3. Both have no record of violence or of causing trouble
4. There was nothing malicious in it, like bullying or going on and on with violence as punishment
5. Both show profound remorse

Hakkaku: "The next time this is impossible" (then at least suspension).

http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2020/01/09/0013020675.shtml

on the way

oo  o

returning

o

NHK news vid

Edited January 9, 2020 by Akinomaki

[Pandaazuma 1,256]

4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Sensible. More than that and I would have gone into retirement. Enough of this politically correct crap. Life is becoming unbearable.

Tell me about it.

[code_number3 536]

Will Ishiura and/or Hokaho gone kyujo because of this fracas?

[Akinomaki 31,359]

1 hour ago, code_number3 said:

Will Ishiura and/or Hokaho gone kyujo because of this fracas?

They were prepared to do it, but now they don't have to.

[sekitori 492]

In the words of the famous LA Laker announcer Chick Hearn, this was clearly a case of "No harm, no foul". 

A warning to Ishiura would have been more than sufficient but the NSK, I assume in an attempt to show its authority, included a pay cut for him. To me, fining his oyakata makes no sense except to once again establish their authority. I realize that the oyakata is responsible for rikishis' behavior but controlling their emotions during a fight in a training session where no one was injured would be difficult if not impossible to do.

I can't imagine that a coach or manager in any sport, if he wasn't directly involved, would ever be held responsible in any way if one or more of his players were involved in a fight. But such is not the case with sumo. 

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by sekitori

[robnplunder 918]

9 hours ago, sekitori said:

 To me, fining his oyakata makes no sense except to once again establish their authority. I realize that the oyakata is responsible for rikishis' behavior but controlling their emotions during a fight in a training session where no one was injured would be difficult if not impossible to do.

I can't imagine that a coach or manager in any sport, if he wasn't directly involved, would ever be held responsible in any way if one or more of his players were involved in a fight. But such is not the case with sumo. 

 

That's Japanese sumo culture at work.  You said it in your post above "oyakata is responsible for rikishi's behavior."   To me, the surprise was not that he was fined, but the amount of the fine.  That seemed a bit too much, especially, in comparison to Ishiura's.

Edited January 10, 2020 by robnplunder

[Akinomaki 31,359]

10 hours ago, sekitori said:

In the words of the famous LA Laker announcer Chick Hearn, this was clearly a case of "No harm, no foul". 

A warning to Ishiura would have been more than sufficient but the NSK, I assume in an attempt to show its authority, included a pay cut for him. To me, fining his oyakata makes no sense except to once again establish their authority. I realize that the oyakata is responsible for rikishis' behavior but controlling their emotions during a fight in a training session where no one was injured would be difficult if not impossible to do.

I can't imagine that a coach or manager in any sport, if he wasn't directly involved, would ever be held responsible in any way if one or more of his players were involved in a fight. But such is not the case with sumo. 

It is the way of sumo to demand that the rikishi show no emotions after the bout, win or lose. The NSK tries to stop these modern trends where people can't and don't have to control their behavior. In a double sense, this has to start at and with keiko, and now also keiko is public. The rikishi have to find a way to train their emotion control elsewhere. The one to mold the rikishi into this form is the oyakata - for each infraction he has to take the blame, because he failed in that. In this case though, the authority of Miyagino over the uchi-deshi of a dai-yokozuna is limited.

Hakuho is getting huge support from the NSK lately, now that he is Japanese and apparently accepted as a future oyakata - especially from his 2 yokozuna sempai in the NSK top. Everybody knows that he is in fact the shisho of Ishiura, so he should have been questioned as well and got admonished for the misbehavior of his uchi-deshi.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Akinomaki

[Kaminariyuki 471]

I hadn't checked this thread recently, but I was at Myagino heya on January 8, when the Oyakata, Hakuho and Enho had gone to another heya to practice. The two rikishi seemed fine with each other, and the practice proceeded without incident. I was a bit surprised that they were left to themselves, although another former rikishi was there to help guide part of the sparring matches. Seems much ado about nothing, and I suspect they will now be more careful in the future.

[Yamanashi 2,367]

3 hours ago, Kaminariyuki said:

I hadn't checked this thread recently, but I was at Myagino heya on January 8, when the Oyakata, Hakuho and Enho had gone to another heya to practice. The two rikishi seemed fine with each other, and the practice proceeded without incident. I was a bit surprised that they were left to themselves, although another former rikishi was there to help guide part of the sparring matches. Seems much ado about nothing, and I suspect they will now be more careful in the future.

This thread soon to be changed to "Ishiura keiko violence - the previous scandal"

[Johnofuji 214]

Get ready for the next scandal about Hakuho taking a sneaky trip to Sydney for New Years Eve. At least he gave me a calendar and a tegata date 2nd January 2020