Otokonoyama

Ishiura keiko violence - the next scandal

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Sadly most of us can't read japanese and as most of the time, google translate is useless. Would someone please enlighten us?

 

On the 4th, 8 days before the first place for sumo wrestling, on the 4th, in a Miyagino room in Sumida-ku, Tokyo, Ishiura (29) in Makuuchi and Houkapeng (30) in Makuhashi shake their fists as they practice together. He was fighting with each other and stopped by Hakuho, who was in the rehearsal hall. The two are of the same grade, but the beginning is Hokopeng six years earlier.

It is time that the Sumo Association is making every effort to prevent the recurrence of the violence issue, and the teacher, Master Miyagino (former Takehayama), immediately reported the situation to the Sumo Association, including Takashi Director (former Sekiwaki Takamoyama) at Isehama Ichihama.

After a short period of practice, the atmosphere became brutal, and when Ishiura defeated Hokopeng, both hands came out.

Master し た stabbed a nail into the violent content, saying “Stop it!”, But Ishiura, who was cut off by Ho-Ko-Pen, again shakes his fist, and Ho-Ko-Peng is back again. Hakuho, who had no idea, completed the lesson with a break in, "Let's do it!"

Ishiura replied, "It's getting hot. You need to practice calmly." Mr. Miyagi also said, "I have reported to the Sumo Association. Because violence is violence, I regret that I was bad for each other. I have to pay close attention. If it gets hot, it will ruin a good practice." did.

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Posted (edited)

@BenihanaIf you click on the tweet, you'll find a nice English summary. Post one (of four) is displayed when it embeds on Sumo Forum. Mouse over the English part of the tweet and left-click to go to the original and see the remaining three tweets that summarize the article.

Edited by Otokonoyama
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Posted (edited)

To summarize from the tweets: Ishiura kicks Hokaho after a loss. The next bout he wins but punched at Hokaho. Miyagino oyakata shouted at them to stop which they did. In the next bout Hokaho defeated Ishiura and Ishiura punched him. Apparently punches were then thrown by both and Hakuho stepped in telling them to cut it out. Practice was then over.

I am not sure what kind of discipline these two will face, if any. It happened during practice.

Ishiura says he 'overheated'. I never knew he disliked losing so much.... 

Miyagino reported it so I think he did all that he could do. If he doesn't report it and the story comes out, then he might face punishment for not reporting it. I think he was 'caught between a rock and hard place'.

EDIT: The wife just got onto MSN Japan to check the news and the first picture was Hakuho in the middle of these two trying to break them up....

 

Edited by Kishinoyama
More info...

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18 minutes ago, Kishinoyama said:

Ishiura says he 'overheated'. I never knew he disliked losing so much.... 

He probably wasn't stoked about losing to a guy who's never been a sekitori...

I agree about the practice thing. Fights break out in football practice or even in non-contact sport practice. This isn't to say that fighting is totally fine, but in this situation, nobody got hurt, and nobody was defenseless. Ishiura shouldn't be punching lower ranked wrestlers.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, mt fuji said:

I agree about the practice thing. Fights break out in football practice or even in non-contact sport practice. This isn't to say that fighting is totally fine, but in this situation, nobody got hurt, and nobody was defenseless.

I don't consider this to be the next "scandal" or even a scandal at all. It's a situation which doesn't even begin to compare with a situation where a sekitori abuses his tsukebito. It's a case of two rikishis who while practicing, became overly agressive. The oyakata did the proper thing by reporting the incident. The yokozuna did the proper thing by breaking up the fight. 

As for so-called "discipline",  I doubt if the NSK willl do anything more than reprimand both rikishis, telling them to never exhibit this kind of behavior again. In more extreme situations, something harsher such as suspension for the next basho would be the correct thing to do. This is NOT one of those situations. It's a case of a punishment fitting a crime. Since the crime was actually quite minor and was stopped quickly by those in charge, the punishment (if there is any at all) should be as well. 

Edited by sekitori
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39 minutes ago, mt fuji said:


I agree about the practice thing. Fights break out in football practice or even in non-contact sport practice. This isn't to say that fighting is totally fine, but in this situation, nobody got hurt, and nobody was defenseless. Ishiura shouldn't be punching lower ranked wrestlers.

My thoughts exactly.  I am a former boxer and fights do break out during sparring session.  I am surprised more of these things don't happen in sumo.  Or, do they?

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5 hours ago, robnplunder said:

My thoughts exactly.  I am a former boxer and fights do break out during sparring session.  I am surprised more of these things don't happen in sumo.  Or, do they?

I suspect they do, since the days of yore. Look at the soken events before the honbasho held in Tokyo. After each practice bout, the two combatants are quickly surrounded by eight or a dozen men waiting around the edges of the dohyo. A custom born out of pragmatic experience, no?

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34 minutes ago, Otokonoyama said:

I suspect they do, since the days of yore. Look at the soken events before the honbasho held in Tokyo. After each practice bout, the two combatants are quickly surrounded by eight or a dozen men waiting around the edges of the dohyo. A custom born out of pragmatic experience, no?

I believe in this case they are vying to be chosen next to wrestle whoever won the previous bout.  

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7 hours ago, Kishinoyama said:

To summarize from the tweets: Ishiura kicks Hokaho after a loss. The next bout he wins but punched at Hokaho. Miyagino oyakata shouted at them to stop which they did. In the next bout Hokaho defeated Ishiura and Ishiura punched him. Apparently punches were then thrown by both and Hakuho stepped in telling them to cut it out. Practice was then over.

So ... Ishiura kicks once, hits Hokaho twice in three separate practice matches.   It seems like an one sided incident.  If that is truly the case, they will have to act on the report, even suspend Ishiura for the next basho.   

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55 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

So ... Ishiura kicks once, hits Hokaho twice in three separate practice matches.   It seems like an one sided incident.  If that is truly the case, they will have to act on the report, even suspend Ishiura for the next basho.   

If the report is accurate, it was one sided ar first. Hokaho did eventually defend himself. Which I believe at that point, he was justified to do so. Like others have said, I really don't see anything major happening to either one of them. Maybe they will both get some kind of warning.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Kaninoyama said:

I believe in this case they are vying to be chosen next to wrestle whoever won the previous bout.  

Oh, for sure. But, take a look at this vid, for example, and tell me if you see anything else going on...maybe the appearance of a safety brake is a feature not a bug.

 

Edited by Otokonoyama
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Posted (edited)

I’ll take a second to say “way to go, Hokaho.” Never thought he’d be much of a threat to sekitori but obviously he is.

It seems like everyone did the right thing except Ishiura, who didn’t do anything a red-blooded A-type hasn’t done before. He should be punished but I think anything more than a 1 basho suspension is too much. Even that is pretty severe for this, in my opinion. Maybe I draw a dangerous line here, but a flare-up at practice is different than gratuitous corporal punishment and definitely different than the kinds of sustained hellish bullying that go on in stables.

Edited by Churaumi
English is hard, yo.
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11 hours ago, robnplunder said:

I am surprised more of these things don't happen in sumo.  Or, do they?

They were the norm, not the exception. Only in these times of violence hysteria this could lead to a report to NSK officials by the oyakata, one of those first time ever ones. Maybe also as a protest of Miyagino against Hakuho, to show that he is still the oyakata. I'm sure this leads to a punishment of Ishiura, the oyakata has practically asked for it. 1 basho suspension for a sekitori is the fixed rule now for violent behavior - if the NSK had the intention to do shisho Hakuho a big favor, they could settle for a stern warning instead and say this was not actually violence.

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1 hour ago, Otokonoyama said:

Oh, for sure. But, take a look at this vid, for example, and tell me if you see anything else going on...maybe the appearance of a safety brake is a feature not a bug.

 

Indeed. Perhaps because they're up on an actual dohyo rather than on the ground at the keikoba. 

Or maybe it's always been a combination of the two?

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1 hour ago, Churaumi said:

It seems like everyone did the right thing except Ishiura, who didn’t do anything a red-blooded A-type hasn’t done before. 

If the report is correct, Ishiura went a bit too far.   Hitting someone at once in practice?  Sure it happens.  Twice in a row against the same guy?  It may happen once in a while.  Three in a row against the same guy?  That shouldn't happen by a well trained professional.  

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Anyone equating this to  a rikishi beating up on his tsukebito or any other violent action outside of the ring, has no idea what he is talking about, regardless of the heavy English accent. If a keiko session getting out of hand requires punishment or seeing into, I'm switching to ballet. Unbelievable we are even having this conversation. Even more unbelievable that the Kyokai is. Might as well lower the dohyo and make them wear helmets while we're at it.

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3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Anyone equating this to  a rikishi beating up on his tsukebito or any other violent action outside of the ring, has no idea what he is talking about, regardless of the heavy English accent. If a keiko session getting out of hand requires punishment or seeing into, I'm switching to ballet. Unbelievable we are even having this conversation. Even more unbelievable that the Kyokai is. Might as well lower the dohyo and make them wear helmets while we're at it.

Any type of hysteria like the present one about violence, sooner or later  leads to ridiculous overreactions. Takanofuji will rightfully complain to the tabloids about injustice, should Ishiura get no penalty at all. And either way he'll say "I told you I see no hope for sumo in the future".

At the toshiyori-kai on the 23rd last month,  a new NSK violence prevention manual was distributed to all oyakata, the latest rules about how to guide the deshi, likely with details about how to deal with infractions. https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20191223/k10012226021000.html

This is the first result of an oyakata following the new rules.

 

And an interesting article about lowering the dohyo http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/column/sumo/news/201911240000129.html  "Because of the dohyo height, rikishi can skillfully use the dohyo edge"

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50 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

"Because of the dohyo height, rikishi can skillfully use the dohyo edge"

I call BS.

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Posted (edited)

What a language

高さがない方がケガはしないんじゃない?

Literal translation:

Would it not be that (the dohyo) was not high there would not be injuries?

Edited by Tsuchinoninjin

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

What a language

高さがない方がケガはしないんじゃない?

Literal translation:

Would it not be that (the dohyo) was not high there would not be injuries?

Tatsunami Oyakata said that. He was the only one interviewed that thought it's a good idea to lower the dohyo and even suggested widening the outside part of the dohyo as well.. The others, ex-Aminishiki ("height helps me make better use of the dohyo technique - wise, a low dohyo can hamper the shinpan's view, the audience has a better view, OTOH, there are injuries, so I don't know what's better..") , ex-KaioU (who said injuries from falling off the dohyo were a result of something lacking in the individual preparations /training), ex-Miyabiyama ("there are many opinions, but it's been this way for years, Kyushu number of injuries was a fluke, there are many bashos with no injuries"), and ex- Tochiazuma ("the height makes it scary, I give you that.., easier to watch for the audience, if one goes on the attack the chances for an injury are slim, it's always been like that") were more or less for leaving things as is. It was also mentioned that the Kyushu dohyo - side was "softer" than the KKan as it was made from softer materials.

Edited by Kintamayama
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