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Athenayama

Less Sumo Games players?

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12 hours ago, Joaoiyama said:

A lot of sumo fans don't know there's a sumo forum and don't even know what sumo games are until you see them and talking from personal experience it took me a couple years to get over this forum format of games to get into it.

What is a forum format game? If you were referring to games played solely on the forum, I can see your point. I was talking about the games with their own sites, as out of style as they may be. Or am I missing something here?

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13 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

What is a forum format game? If you were referring to games played solely on the forum, I can see your point. I was talking about the games with their own sites, as out of style as they may be. Or am I missing something here?

Absent coming to the forum, how is someone suppoed to find the SuperBanzuke.  Or care about it.  Particularly given that it looks like a website that was made 15 years ago, it's not even clear that it's still active.  

If we're using "Exil's excellent post", that implies we've gotten as far as the forum.  However, his post doesn't contain any information about what it's about.  It's a fine tool for people that already play, but it's not really an on-ramp.  

There's also... thirty different games.  For no apparent reason.  Especially to someone that doesn't yet play any of them.  The nice thing about GTB, in contrast,  is that it's got a definite reason to exist (unique in category) and a website that, if not modern, at least looks like it's maintained.  

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38 minutes ago, Ryoshishokunin said:



There's also... thirty different games.  For no apparent reason.  

Most of the games are unique. Isp, bench, roto, toto, turn the tide, chaingang, quad, salary, oracle, hoshitori, udh, sumo game, juryo game, odd- to mention a few automated ones, all different in their rules and their reasons for existence.. Yes, there are quite a few games, but nobody needs to play them all. Find your three favorites and start with them.

Edited by Kintamayama

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On 09/12/2019 at 08:13, Kintamayama said:

Most of the games are unique. Isp, bench, roto, toto, turn the tide, chaingang, quad, salary, oracle, hoshitori, udh, sumo game, juryo game, odd- to mention a few automated ones, all different in their rules and their reasons for existence.. Yes, there are quite a few games, but nobody needs to play them all. Find your three favorites and start with them.

I would classify Roto, Salary Cap and Hoshitori as being the same basic kind of game; there are some rules for picking your squad, and some other rules for scoring based on the wins and sansho for your squad.  Those two rules sets could be mixed among the different games, along with Paper Oyakata and Bingo, to yield "new" games that are distinct, but not distinct enough to really be different games to most people.  Those 5 games are probably the worst offenders in terms of games needing a reason to exist, even though those that play all of them probably understand the nuances of each game and can appreciate the different kinds of decisions that have to be made.  Juryo is the same kind as well, but at least the allowed picks are different.  Oracle and UDH are truly different pre-basho games.  Some of the dailies feel a bit repetitive as well; most of them are just like "rank this particular group of matches/rikishi by how likely you think they are to win".  Chain Gang gives you some incentive to not pick the most likely winner, but I think optimal play will pick the most likely one unless the difference in likelihood is very minor and the difference in points very large.  Odd (and TUG) at least make you assess the likelihood of winning on an absolute scale instead of a relative scale, which I really like about them.  Quad also has a good incentive near the beginning of the tournament to not always pick the most likely rikishi to win, but that's generally what it comes down to for the last 5 days at least. 

My point is that while there is plenty of variety in some areas of the games, a lot of them have the same basic format.  Plus, I think there's an expectation by a lot of people coming in that there couldn't possibly be that many interesting games just picking who is going to win or do well, and when they see two dozen games they assume there's a bunch of repetition, and there is as I pointed out last paragraph.  If we want to pick up more players, there needs to be more of a kick into promoting the simplest games (with Kintamayama has done) but also a gated way of showing people the various games that exist.  This is where a more modern site with a Level Up mechanic prominent would go a long way to attracting new players.  Right now everything is very old-fashioned and ad hoc, with no one guiding vision of what it's like to play the sumo prediction games.  Perhaps part of that is a lack of desire for the games to grow big because the infrastructure can't handle ten times the number of players, and the few new players that tend to be drawn in are those that are truly interested in testing their sumo prediction (or prediction system design, in my case) skills.

But there's also no real problem in the slightly lower number of players.  Plenty of people have been playing for decades and don't look like they're going to quit until they physically incapable, and that's all you really need.  It's more of a smallish community where most people know each other, and trying to expand that community might not suit those that like its size right now.

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I think a level of 100-ish players per game is great. I also think maybe one out of 100 sumo fans of varying interest is interested in playing fantasy games in the first place which to some may seem childish. I'm guessing basketball or baseball fantasy games are played by much , much less, ratio wise. It's no surprise that most games are played by the same players. I beg to differ regarding the old fashioned sites. If there was a real platform to advertise the games,  like NBA or MBL fantasy games are advertised, more would be playing even if they had to sign up by smoke signals. The problem isn't the sites or the system- the problem is that not many are even aware of their existence. ISP is a good example of a creaky site that doubled its players because there was a platform that at its peak had 20,000 viewers daily. 50 out of 20,000 is probably the correct potential player ratio.

Edited by Kintamayama
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Probably the real existential threat is not the amount of players, but all the major browsers deciding to lock out http sites or sites with poor security like sending the password in the url...

Hopefully that won't happen for a long while.

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On 08/12/2019 at 13:04, Randomitsuki said:

Alternatively, there is the Superbanzuke main page which provides access to all Superbanzuke games. Links on that page should be working, as I tend to update them every basho. 
http://99998271.com/sb/

Note you'll need to update the Bench Sumo mailing list link.  :)

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