Asashosakari

Promotion/Demotion and Yusho discussion Kyushu 2019

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Should Sakigake get the nod for promotion, he will surpass Wakatenro's more than 4 years wait between juryo promotions. I don't know if it is an absolute record, but it is worth mentioning. Sakigake's last juryo tournament was in 01.2015.

Edited by shumitto
typo

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2 hours ago, shumitto said:

Should Sakigake get the nod for promotion, he will surpass Wakatenro's more than 4 years wait between juryo promotions. I don't know if it is an absolute record, but it is worth mentioning. Sakigake's last juryo tournament was in 01.2015.

Absolute record is Hamanishiki who returned to juryo in 07.2011 having last been ranked there in 11.2004 - that's a 39 tournament gap. (Annoying I archived the Banzuke Topics for July 2011 but not the accompanying tables.)

Edited by ryafuji
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1 hour ago, ryafuji said:

Absolute record is Hamanishiki who returned to juryo in 07.2011 having last been ranked there in 11.2004 - that's a 39 tournament gap. (Annoying I archived the Banzuke Topics for July 2011 but not the accompanying tables.)

(Table 17) Most Tournaments To Juryo Return

  Rikishi Tournaments L. J. T. B. D. Return
1 Hamanishiki 38 11/04 7/11
2 Dewanoshima 32 11/82 5/88
3 Makimoto 31 7/65 11/70
4 Kotokanyu 27 3/96 11/00
4 Wakatenro 1/04 9/08
6 Sentoryu 26 1/95 7/99
7 Seionada 25 7/83 11/87
7 Hoshitango 5/94 9/98
9 Notonoyama 24 5/50 3/57
9 Kotonokuni 11/73 1/78
9 Chikubayama 11/78 1/83
9 Gokenzan 9/98 11/02

L. J. T. B. D. = Last Juryo Tournament Before Return

From what I can tell, no new additions to that list since 2011, though Ryuden got close with 23.

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Two questiones: Have the sumo wrestlers a pension when retired? Whwn a sumo wrestlers is demoted from the paid ranks, he does not earn any money¿?

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4 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

(Table 17) Most Tournaments To Juryo Return

  Rikishi Tournaments L. J. T. B. D. Return
1 Hamanishiki 38 11/04 7/11
2 Dewanoshima 32 11/82 5/88
3 Makimoto 31 7/65 11/70
4 Kotokanyu 27 3/96 11/00
4 Wakatenro 1/04 9/08
6 Sentoryu 26 1/95 7/99
7 Seionada 25 7/83 11/87
7 Hoshitango 5/94 9/98
9 Notonoyama 24 5/50 3/57
9 Kotonokuni 11/73 1/78
9 Chikubayama 11/78 1/83
9 Gokenzan 9/98 11/02

L. J. T. B. D. = Last Juryo Tournament Before Return

From what I can tell, no new additions to that list since 2011, though Ryuden got close with 23.

I hope this guy breaks the record, it was heartbreaking back then.

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7 hours ago, Gabriel said:

When are going out the new ranks?

Usually on Monday, 13 days before the first day of the tournament (being in general the second Sunday of each odd-numbered month)

For Hatsu basho, it differs a bit. This year, rankings will be anounced on December 24th.

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Should they want to promote Abi to sekiwake, is it impossible for Endo to retain his K1w with a 7-8 makekoshi? From my research, it hasn't happened before (in this case, we can add that an M2 going to komusubi with 8 wins is quite common), but is there a rule against it?

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There's no rule against it but it feels really unlikely. Hokutofuji has the same record at the same rank, so they'd have to treat him the same. That means 2 komusubi spots are occupied. But you have Daieisho and Myogiryu both with winning records and it feels like they should be komusubi. So you either expand komusubi to 4 on pretty weak records for all 4 guys, or you just do the normal thing and Endo and Hokutofuji become M1 (or M2, but maybe Mitakeumi goes there) and Daieisho and Myogiryu become the 2 komusubi.

 

In my mind it's not Abi forcing sekiwake to 3, but Takayasu's demotion forcing it.

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5 hours ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

In my mind it's not Abi forcing sekiwake to 3, but Takayasu's demotion forcing it.

Some people were sure that's how it works four months ago. I'd say the last two banzuke have conclusively disproven the "it's the KK komusubi who has first dibs on an open sekiwake slot" idea.

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1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

I'd say the last two banzuke have conclusively disproven the "it's the KK komusubi who has first dibs on an open sekiwake slot" idea.

That, and the proven fact that Abi gets no respect.

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My go at juryo:

Tokushoryu (J1w 8-7)      J1   Kotonowaka (J7w 10-5)
Chiyoshoma (J3w 8-7)      J2   Hidenoumi (J4e 8-7)
Daishomaru (M15e 5-10)    J3   Nishikigi (M14w 4-11)
Kizakiumi (J10w 10-5)     J4   Wakatakakage (M16e 4-1-10)
Mitoryu (J9w 9-6)         J5   Daishoho (M15w 3-12)
Daiamami (J4w 6-9)        J6   Ichinojo (M12e 0-0-15)
Tobizaru (J10e 8-7)       J7   Kyokutaisei (J7e 7-8)
Kotoshoho (J13e 9-6)      J8   Kyokushuho (J8e 7-8)
Yago (J2w 4-11)           J9   Sokokurai (J9e 7-8)
Akua (J12e 8-7)           J10  Takagenji (J6e 5-10)
Toyonoshima (J8w 6-9)     J11  Irodori (J14w 8-7)
Terunofuji (Ms10w 7-0 Y)  J12  Asagyokusei (Ms2e 5-2)
Churanoumi (Ms1e 4-3)     J13  Chiyootori (Ms1w 4-3)
Hoshoryu (J13w 7-8)       J14  Sakigake (Ms3e 4-3)

Maybe Tomokaze instead of Tokushoryu in the first slot, of course. Only 10 ranks down for Ichinojo as mentioned earlier - maybe they'll insist on the customary 12-rank drop since he was fully kyujo and all, but I wouldn't really see it as justified to put him behind Tobizaru et al..

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One of the most noteworthy aspects of the the Juryo division for Hatsu 2020 will be the simultaneous return to wrestling there of Terunofuji, 27, a 14 time ozeki, for the first time since Natsu 2018, and Ichinojo, 26, an 8 time sekiwake, for the first time since Nagoya 2014. (Of course that's assuming Ichinojo will be healthy enough to wrestle.)

I can't recall ever having two such formerly higher ranked rikishi in Juryo simultaneously while still in their 20s (never mind mid-twenties). 

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33 minutes ago, ScreechingOwl said:

One of the most noteworthy aspects of the the Juryo division for Hatsu 2020 will be the simultaneous return to wrestling there of Terunofuji, 27, a 14 time ozeki, for the first time since Natsu 2018, and Ichinojo, 26, an 8 time sekiwake, for the first time since Nagoya 2014. (Of course that's assuming Ichinojo will be healthy enough to wrestle.)

I can't recall ever having two such formerly higher ranked rikishi in Juryo simultaneously while still in their 20s (never mind mid-twenties). 

The post-gambling ban basho with Miyabiyama, Goeido and Toyonoshima in juryo comes to mind, although Miya was already 33 and the other two, while both young ex-sekiwake, were less decorated at the time than Ichinojo is. But yeah, definitely a highly unusual scenario we're going to be presented with in January. (Assuming Ichinojo is fit to compete...)

Edited by Asashosakari

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Good day Asashosakari,

   First, thanks for all you do, both on this forum, and the sumo reference data base.  This promotion/demotion thread is a must read... even if I fall behind a bit.  If I'm ever in your neighborhood I would certainly buy you a libation or three. 

   Now, from one longtime forum member to another, I invite you to play TORCHBEARER 2020.  The rules can be found in the Sumo Games thread on this forum.  It’s an annual guessing game and at the end of the year a prize is sent to the winner.  It shouldn't take up much time as you only pick once a year.  The game has been around for 10 years and there is a prize for the winner.  New players are always welcome and it would be an honor to send the prize your way. Thank you.

-shimodahito

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I only realized just now that I didn't get the final ex-sekitori Kyushu results posted in November, so here goes...

new KK: Churanoumi, Chiyonoumi, Gokushindo, Kitaharima, Kizenryu, Chiyoarashi, Keitenkai, Kagamio, Tokushinho, Ryuko, Higonojo, Amakaze

new MK: Chiyonokuni

Great finish to the basho there.
 

Record   Rank   Shikona Heya Age Out HiRk M# J#
4-3 Ms1e Churanoumi Kise 25 3 J14   2
4-3 Ms1w Chiyootori Kokonoe 27 12 K 19 16
5-2 Ms2e Asagyokusei Takasago 26 1 J14   1
3-4 Ms2w Chiyonokuni Kokonoe 29 3 M1 25 16
4-3 Ms3e Sakigake Shibatayama 33 29 J10   5
1-6 Ms4w Daiseido Kise 26 4 J12   3
2-5 Ms5e Chiyonoo Kokonoe 28 6 M15 2 31
intai Ms5w Takanofuji Chiganoura 22 1 J5   4
 
4-3 Ms6e Chiyonoumi Kokonoe 26 1 J8   8
3-4 Ms6w Seiro Shikoroyama 31 1 M14 3 31
kyujo Ms8e Arawashi Minezaki 33 2 M2 21 16
5-2 Ms10e Hakuyozan Takadagawa 24 3 J3   6
7-0 Y Ms10w Terunofuji Isegahama 28 9 O 24 5
4-3 Ms14w Gokushindo Nishikido 23 6 J13   1
4-3 Ms15w Toyohibiki Sakaigawa 35 11 M2 52 14
 
4-3 Ms16e Kitaharima Yamahibiki 33 13 M15 1 24
6-1 Ms17e Asabenkei Takasago 30 9 J7   7
5-2 Ms17w Fujiazuma Tamanoi 32 16 M4 17 18
4-3 Ms19w Sagatsukasa Irumagawa 37 34 M9 6 22
4-3 Ms21e Kizenryu Kise 34 8 J11   9
4-3 Ms23w Chiyoarashi Kokonoe 28 38 J10   4
4-3 Ms27e Keitenkai Onomatsu 29 43 J11   1
 
4-3 Ms31e Kagamio Kagamiyama 31 21 M9 7 14
4-3 Ms33e Tokushinho Kise 35 24 J6   27
4-3 Ms43w Ryuko Onoe 21 2 J12   1
2-5 Ms44w Takaryu Kise 27 26 J13   1
4-3 Ms45w Higonojo Kise 35 33 J9   4
5-2 Ms46e Jokoryu Kise 31 5 K 15 13
6-1 Ms48e Nionoumi Yamahibiki 32 38 M16 1 12
3-4 Ms58w Asahisho Tomozuna 30 15 M11 4 30
 
4-3 Sd3e Amakaze Oguruma 28 10 M13 1 18
3-3-1 Sd7e Masunoyama Chiganoura 29 28 M4 13 12
0-1-6 Sd8e Hitenryu Tatsunami 35 49 J13   2
2-5 Sd50w Yoshiazuma Tamanoi 42 31 M12 3 18
3-4 Sd54w Dairaido Takadagawa 39 79 J2   6
3-4 Sd75w Kaonishiki Azumazeki 41 49 J6   2
 
6-1 Jd106w Ura Kise 27 11 M4 5 6

 

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