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2019 Kyushu Basho Discussion (spoiler alert)

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21 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

There's a difference between knowing that somebody has retired, and knowing that somebody has not retired. Leaving aside that I'm pretty sure you're overestimating the average sumo fan's attentiveness. (Just spend some time on a more casual fans' place like Reddit, you may be surprised by the questions that get asked about rikishi who are off the dohyo, whether by injury or by retirement... )

Then there's the issue of financial compensation - as it stands I'm pretty sure the Kyokai's regulations don't allow paying any banzuke-gai rikishi more than the jonokuchi allowance, which would be more harsh than letting injured rikishi drop down the divisions naturally. That could of course be changed, but then we're starting to get away from "only takes a few easy adjustments" pretty quickly. And on a more emotional basis, I'm not quite sure an active rikishi wants to have his names struck off the banzuke in such sudden fashion... As far as I can tell, those inside the sumo world still don't only see the banzuke as a ranking list, but also as a symbol of their membership.

My idea would just be an option - anybody who wants to drop naturally from the start could do so and keep the benefits of makushita/sd for longer. For the TD option, the sekitori would have to use a bit more of his savings. I have no idea of Reddit or the like - it is only the Japanese public that counts, and they would get informed by the (local) media about how an injured (ex-)sekitori is doing.

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Well, there goes all hope of Mitakeumi making Ozeki. The most he can get now is 11 and that’s not going to be enough.

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4 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Well, there goes all hope of Mitakeumi making Ozeki. The most he can get now is 11 and that’s not going to be enough.

He doesn't look well at all, even just 8 seems hard to achieve

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5 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Well, there goes all hope of Mitakeumi making Ozeki. The most he can get now is 11 and that’s not going to be enough.

I think he had too many parties after the last yusho.   No Ozeki for Mitakeumi anytime soon, if ever.   

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This basho is painful to watch, so many guys kyujo and many more who should be

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Just now, Rainoyama said:

This basho is painful to watch, so many guys kyujo and many more who should be

Ditto.   

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This basho is turning into a slaughter for the Ozeki and those recently ranked as such.

Goeido is kyujo as is newly demoted Tochinoshin. Takayasu is staring demotion in the face. Takakeisho looks like he's going to struggle to get his eight wins.

There's a scenario, albeit unlikely, where there could be no Ozeki after next year's Hatsu basho. 

Edited by Kaninoyama
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So Hakuho takes sole lead with a pack of no fewer than 12 men behind him on 4-2 (13 if we include Wakatakakage).

Edited by Eikokurai

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Mitakeumi seems to have lost his edge.  After the cut to his right eyebrow on Day 3, he hasn't been the same...

Edited by Amamaniac
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1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

That was a joke. Do you really think I’d suggest wrapping grown men in foam?

You got me thinking.  How about sumotori having to wear sumo suits?  That would have the benefit of padding without the loss of their traditional outer appearance.  Hey, I think we're finally onto to something here ... not!

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All this talk about wrestlers getting injured, and today Enho somehow manages to avoid what some people feel is an inevitable career-ending injury against his nemesis Shohozan.  That is the first time since I started following sumo that a wrestler in the Top Division lost by doing side splits!  

Despite his loss, Enho continues to amaze.  I noticed that all the yobidashi on the hanamichi were watching that bout intently, rather than just chatting amongst themselves as per usual.

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Today was morozashi day - I think I counted four and everyone who got one, won. 

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1 hour ago, Kaninoyama said:

There's a scenario, albeit unlikely, where there could be no Ozeki after next year's Hatsu basho. 

I think there HAVE to be at least 2 ozeki for a basho to be valid. I could be wrong but I think that if the number falls below 2 then a yokozuna becomes an honorary ozeki for that tournament.

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1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Mitakeumi seems to have lost his edge.  After the cut to his right eyebrow on Day 3, he hasn't been the same...

Well, once you lose the eyebrow...

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37 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

All this talk about wrestlers getting injured, and today Enho somehow manages to avoid what some people feel is an inevitable career-ending injury against his nemesis Shohozan.  That is the first time since I started following sumo that a wrestler in the Top Division lost by doing side splits!  

Despite his loss, Enho continues to amaze.  I noticed that all the yobidashi on the hanamichi were watching that bout intently, rather than just chatting amongst themselves as per usual.

One reason I like Enho is that he does solid sumo, not so much of the gimmicky stuff like Ura, which is a guaranteed injury-in-waiting. I have long said he will make sanyaku and I hope it comes soon. It won't be through luck.

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12 minutes ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

I think there HAVE to be at least 2 ozeki for a basho to be valid. I could be wrong but I think that if the number falls below 2 then a yokozuna becomes an honorary ozeki for that tournament.

Yes, that is what happened in Aki 1981.

But if for some reason the yokozuna retire as well and there is only 1 (Y+O) remaining, I wonder what they will do... promote to ozeki the next-in-line? The best-of-the-other-guys?

Edited by Nantonoyama

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Couple positive notes. Kagayaki winning with a double grip, he looked good doing it. Kotoshugiku putting couple wins together. Was funny watching the ref sinking down to see when Enho's ass touched. Go Hokotofuji !!

Edited by Philioyamfugi

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50 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

All this talk about wrestlers getting injured, and today Enho somehow manages to avoid what some people feel is an inevitable career-ending injury against his nemesis Shohozan.  That is the first time since I started following sumo that a wrestler in the Top Division lost by doing side splits!

The look on Enho's face after it was over was priceless. :-D

Edited by Kishinoyama

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2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Well, there goes all hope of Mitakeumi making Ozeki. The most he can get now is 11 and that’s not going to be enough.

I agree, it seems that one basho he is doing well and the next basho he is not maintaining the level to get enough wins and get these quality wins after he has gotten the win of one basho or double digits win

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Asanoyama again dominated by Endo. This is the kind of perfomances that make me think that Asanoyama is never going to be a Yokozuna.

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8 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

have argued in favour of fixed re-entry points before myself, something along the lines of "injured in sanyaku = J14-equivalent, injured as maegashira = Ms15, injured in juryo = Ms30 or Ms60", but that does have some serious edge case issues (K vs M1, M16 vs J1...), and additionally doesn't handle non-honbasho injuries well. Perhaps a better idea altogether would be something like this: Rikishi injured while sekitori-ranked drop down the banzuke as usual, but get to restart from the rank they held after their second full absence no matter how many more of them followed, with the restrictions that it can't be higher than bottom juryo (or indeed maybe Ms1 for practical reasons) and not lower than bottom makushita. For toriteki the same two-demotions rule could be used without any additional max/min limits.

That would retain some semblance of the normal banzuke workings, provide better rank-equivalent protection (should an injured M16 really receive the same ranking benefit as an M1, while an M1 gets treated much worse than a komusubi?), and also help to avoid clogging up certain banzuke areas with multiple returnees at the same time.

For somebody like Ura that would have meant Ms10. For Terunofuji it would have been Ms60 - although he almost certainly would have managed his career differently if such a rule was in place, and probably dropped out of competition early enough after his demotion from ozeki that he'd have been able to return at bottom juryo or very high in makushita.

Really like this kinda idea. Mainly because we know it's just a waste of time for an injured sekitori to climb back from Sd or below. 

I was thinking about setting a maximum demotion at the bottom of the division below where the rikishi went kyujo (so J14-ish for a makuuchi, Ms60ish for a juryo ...). But the TD equivalent seems even easier to set up and closer to an already existing system which the NSK may accept (and that's a BIG 'may').

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4 hours ago, Otokonoyama said:

Wrapped in foam and fighting on pogo sticks.

Every minor league baseball team in America has those "sumo fat suits" for the between-innings fan shows; maybe NSK could pick some up cheap.

https://www.texassumo.com/rental_post/texas-sumo-wrestling/

  Or get those giant heads for concussion protection.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mascot_race

Just some more free advice from the Sumo Forum community.

 

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