code_number3

2019 Aki Basho Discussion (spoiler alert!)

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A really fun basho with so many within one of the lead on Day 14, and 3 tied for the lead on the final day. I, too, hope the Yokozuna are back in November, but we shall see. Hoping Tochinoshin comes back at full speed as well, to hopefully repeat Takakeisho's 10 plus win to get back to Ozeki.

We've definitely got some new talent rising. Only time will tell how high they may climb.

Not to put too much emphasis on it, but the gyojis could work on their matta consistency, IMO, over the next six or seven weeks. Maybe a little practice avoiding the tawara, as well?

 

Edited by Thundersnow
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Tochinoshin got Yusho when Hakuho was out. So did Goeido, Takakeisho and also gorgeous Mitakeumi. So it looked to be a very clever planning by Mitakeumi as well  (Laughing...) . Hakuho's absence allways drives everybody's motivation that high. But Takakeisho himself has been the miracle for me.

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On 21/07/2019 at 01:06, Pandaazuma said:

I don't know what Tsurugisho has been drinking but I have rarely seen such a shocking improvement. He has gone from inconsistent toiler to hard-as-nails arse-kicker in the space of a couple of months. A pleasure to watch. Actually Juryo was good in general this time. Some great sumo down there.

And two months later, Nikkan Sports has the answer! The secret to Tsurugisho's sudden success, or at least a part of it: He has...stopped drinking. Abstinent from alcohol since Natsu basho, it appears.

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1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

And two months later, Nikkan Sports has the answer! The secret to Tsurugisho's sudden success, or at least a part of it: He has...stopped drinking. Abstinent from alcohol since Natsu basho, it appears.

Perhaps influenced by Asanoyama, who cited his switch to a more abstemious lifestyle as critical to his yusho success. 

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2 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

And two months later, Nikkan Sports has the answer! The secret to Tsurugisho's sudden success, or at least a part of it: He has...stopped drinking. Abstinent from alcohol since Natsu basho, it appears.

It worked wonders for Musashimaru, as I recall.

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Is drinking prevalent among ozumo rikishi?    I assumed drinking is a taboo for any professional athlete trying to get ahead.   

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1 minute ago, robnplunder said:

Is drinking prevalent among ozumo rikishi?    I assumed drinking is a taboo for any professional athlete trying to get ahead.   

Modern athletes maybe, but go back to the 70s and 80s and you’d find plenty of English footballers turning up to play with hangovers or even still drunk. Arsene Wenger can be credited with instigating a change in culture in the 90s.

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21 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Is drinking prevalent among ozumo rikishi?    I assumed drinking is a taboo for any professional athlete trying to get ahead.   

Drinking is a major part of calorie intake for rikishi - and part of the job while meeting with the sponsors (tanimachi).

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3 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Drinking is a major part of calorie intake for rikishi - and part of the job while meeting with the sponsors (tanimachi).

Wow, that's unbelievable.     I'd think with so much at stake, rikishi would avoid drinking like a plague.  

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16 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

Wow, that's unbelievable.     I'd think with so much at stake, rikishi would avoid drinking like a plague.  

It's a traditional part of sumo - I think Musashimaru boasted drinking 30 bottles of beer in a few hours or so

Edit: maybe that is a good reason for the rikishi driving ban

Edited by Akinomaki
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4 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

And two months later, Nikkan Sports has the answer! The secret to Tsurugisho's sudden success, or at least a part of it: He has...stopped drinking. Abstinent from alcohol since Natsu basho, it appears.

I have spotted him enjoying a hotdog or sausage from a food truck outside the Kokugikan on many occasions post-match. The man definitely likes them.

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1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

Drinking is a major part of calorie intake for rikishi - and part of the job while meeting with the sponsors (tanimachi).

I have seen some rikishi interviews where their routine is to stop drinking a couple weeks before a hon-basho, abstain through the duration of the basho, and then drink as usual until just prior to the next hon-basho.

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I think there is a distinction between beer and sake. For some of the rikishi, beer is not considered "drinking". OTOH, sake drinking usually ends in a stupor, Oyakata and rikishi alike, which sometimes results in window smashing, parking your car in the middle of a highway and general public disorder.

Edited by Kintamayama
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2 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Wow, that's unbelievable.     I'd think with so much at stake, rikishi would avoid drinking like a plague.  

A couple basho ago when Mainoumi and Shikoroyama (ex-Terao) were NHK commentators for the day, Mainoumi reminisced about how he used to regularly come home at the break of dawn after a full night of drinking during a basho, just as Terao was heading off to the stable to train. 

Even more surprising than the copious drinking by Japanese athletes is the number of those who are also smokers. I don't know to what extent this applies to sumo, but I've encountered a number of elite athletes here, including mixed martial artists and distance runners, who can only be described as chain smokers. I also recall seeing film footage of Kitanoumi when he was an oyakata smoking away as he watched over his deshi. 

Edited by Kaninoyama

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6 minutes ago, Kaninoyama said:

A couple basho ago when Mainoumi and Shikoroyama (ex-Terao) were NHK commentators for the day, Mainoumi reminisced about how he used to regularly come home at the break of dawn after a full night of drinking during a basho, just as Terao was heading off to the stable to train. 

Even more surprising than the copious drinking by Japanese athletes is the number of those who are also smokers. I don't know to what extent this applies to sumo, but I've encountered a number of elite athletes here, including mixed martial artists and distance runners, who can only be described as chain smokers. I also recall seeing film footage of Kitanoumi when he was an oyakata smoking away as he watched over his deshi. 

Even chain smoking?    That's like a death sentence to professional athletes.    Smoking, drinking - pretty unprofessional behavior.   It's like sabotaging one's own career. 

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Can anybody explain why the bout Takakeisho-Abi has been skipped? It is very unusual to skip a Sekiwake-Komusubi bout when both participate all days.

It appears to me as a major blunder of the Torikumi-hyo committee. Not pairing the No.7 and No.8 on the Banzuke! From day 8 it was clear that they were in fact No.4 and No.5 of the remaining Banzuke. Abi had less wins but still was on his way to a solid Kachi-koshi throughout.

Not sure when it happened. I can understand that Okinoumi should get a opponent on the final day, which is also in the Yusho race. Probably the trouble started on day 12 when Takakeisho was paired with Myogiryu. Myogiryu ended up with a relatively high number of Sanyaku bouts for a M6w. They should have found a more adequate solution.

A minor blunder was not paring M3e Daiesho with M3w Tomokaze, which is also peculiar as they had a similar score throughout the basho.

I would like to add that the job of the Torikumi-hyo committee is made unnecessarily hard by the outdated tradition that they have to make the pairings two days in advance. If they convened just after the final bout of the day it would be so much easier, and there would be less Fusen wins as well.

I also would like to add that the Torikumi making in Sumo is one of the very interesting aspects in Sumo. It has two, partly contradicting, aims - the establishment of ranking and an entertaining Yusho race. Most of the time the committee is really doing a great job at it.

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Sometimes things like that happen. No real reason, the matchmakers don’t always seem to have a solid rhyme or reason for some of their choices. Sometimes they throw people a bone, sometimes not. I swear they made matches one day a few basho ago based on mawashi color.

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3 hours ago, Andreas21 said:

Can anybody explain why the bout Takakeisho-Abi has been skipped? It is very unusual to skip a Sekiwake-Komusubi bout when both participate all days.

It appears to me as a major blunder of the Torikumi-hyo committee. Not pairing the No.7 and No.8 on the Banzuke! From day 8 it was clear that they were in fact No.4 and No.5 of the remaining Banzuke. Abi had less wins but still was on his way to a solid Kachi-koshi throughout.

 

Because they like to have at least 3 intra- sanyaku matches on Day 15 if they can, and at least 1 intra-sanyaku match on every other day and the remainder fill out from Day 14 backwards. Mitakeumi-Takakeisho was scheduled on Day 8 before Kakuryu pulled out. Given the bouts that had taken place prior to that, it meant that the final 3 bouts should have been Tochinoshin-Goeido, Mitakeumi-Endo and Takakeisho-Abi. 

After Day 14, Okinoumi still had a chance for the yusho so they had to pair him with one of the Sekiwake. The chose to break up Takakeisho-Abi instead of Mitakeumi-Endo. The choice as to which one to break up is unclear but I suspect that they felt that Takakeisho had the better chance of beating Okinoumi.

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1 hour ago, Sakura said:

The choice as to which one to break up is unclear but I suspect that they felt that Takakeisho had the better chance of beating Okinoumi.

I think it was due to Takakeisho’s lower rank (west sekiwake) than Mitakeumi (east sekiwake). IIRC, it was also mentioned on NHK’s english sumo broadcast. IMO, the schedule-maker probably thought it’s better to have just 1 playoff game rather than more than 1 playoff game for the sake of NHK’s 6pm news hehe.

Edited by code_number3

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19 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Is drinking prevalent among ozumo rikishi?    I assumed drinking is a taboo for any professional athlete trying to get ahead.   

I am just now reading about drinking among the rikishi.  I recall this video featuring Hakuho at a party with friends we all know.  They might have been drinking beer but if so,  it wasn't their first one.  I wonder if May 20, 2012, was during the basho!  I recall another video showing trash stacked up behind a heya, and there were so many brown beer bottles, it was amazing.  And last, on Day 12 of the Aki Basho in 2014, the day I was introduced to Hakuho, I was invited to lunch by our mutual friend.  There were only 4 of us --- Hakuho, Hakuho's trainer, the friend and me.  Hakuho immediately offered me a "Beeru" (not sure of spelling).  He had one himself and it wasn't treated as a big deal.  No one seemed surprised.  Later that day, he defeated Kisenosato, so I guess the Beeru didn't do any harm!

 

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14 hours ago, Andreas21 said:

I would like to add that the job of the Torikumi-hyo committee is made unnecessarily hard by the outdated tradition that they have to make the pairings two days in advance. If they convened just after the final bout of the day it would be so much easier, and there would be less Fusen wins as well.

It's not an outdated tradition, it's driven by the fact that they want to be able to have the next day's matches advertised on the live broadcast. It's done differently for juryo and below because those divisions aren't relevant (enough) to the business.

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On 25/09/2019 at 04:29, Asashosakari said:

It's not an outdated tradition, it's driven by the fact that they want to be able to have the next day's matches advertised on the live broadcast. It's done differently for juryo and below because those divisions aren't relevant (enough) to the business.

I'm not convinced. Is there any reason to advertise the next day's matches? That would imply that there might potentially be a fan which says "Oh, Takakeisho is paired with Abi - that is exciting. Oh, he's paired with Okinoumi instead - I'm not coming!" Too far-fetched in my opinion. I would rather say it's the other way round. They show it in broadcast because it is available.

I've read here in the forum that the original reason was the time required for the calligraphy of the Torikumi. I do not know if that is correct either.

Since when the Torikumi is decided before the bouts of the previous day? I don't know for sure but browsing through old results from 1930-1955, each inter-basho Kjuyo seems to be preceded by a Fusen loss. This seems to indicate it had started very long ago. Before TV had been invented at all. I still think it is tradition - or habit if you will.

 

Anyway, it is simply my opinion that it would be better to drop this habit for better pairings and less fusen. If the committee convenes right after the bouts, they can come to a conclusion in maybe an hour (with the help of computers) then it can then be published on the NSK website as soon as it is finished and the Riskishi (and undecided fans!) have enough time to prepare.

 

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20 minutes ago, Andreas21 said:

Is there any reason to advertise the next day's matches?

The TV broadcast itself?
 

20 minutes ago, Andreas21 said:

That would imply that there might potentially be a fan which says "Oh, Takakeisho is paired with Abi - that is exciting. Oh, he's paired with Okinoumi instead - I'm not coming!" Too far-fetched in my opinion.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that everybody who watches a sumo broadcast is a committed fan who will tune in again the next day no matter what's on show.
 

Quote

Since when the Torikumi is decided before the bouts of the previous day? I don't know for sure but browsing through old results from 1930-1955, each inter-basho Kjuyo seems to be preceded by a Fusen loss. This seems to indicate it had started very long ago. Before TV had been invented at all.

Sumo was first broadcasted on radio in 1928.

Prior to the fusensho system being implemented (also in 1928, it just so happens), withdrawing rikishi resulted in a cancelled bout and non-result (equivalent to an absence) for both scheduled participants: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&kimarite=127
 

20 minutes ago, Andreas21 said:

Anyway, it is simply my opinion that it would be better to drop this habit for better pairings and less fusen. If the committee convenes right after the bouts, they can come to a conclusion in maybe an hour (with the help of computers) then it can then be published on the NSK website as soon as it is finished and the Riskishi (and undecided fans!) have enough time to prepare.

The vast majority of withdrawals aren't known at the time you're suggesting, so the fusen result would still happen. Are you sure you've really thought this through? (The fact that fusen still happen in juryo even though that division's matchups aren't scheduled a day ahead may have been a clue...)

Edited by Asashosakari

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