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2019 Aki Basho Discussion (spoiler alert!)

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No mark on the sand, no mono-ii, and no reason not to have one. The shimpan make another embarrassing decision that effects the yusho race a mere two basho after the previous time. Maybe in a century or two they will actually use common sense and the camera angles to correct human frailty. (Note there was no visible mark in the sand from Endo's supposed step-out.)

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2 minutes ago, mikawa said:

As many as 5 rikishi have a chance of Yusho going into the final day. Does anyone know if this is a record or not?

They don't. Okinoumi is facing Takakeisho, so one of them will have 12 points at the end of the day, therefore only they and Mitakeumi are still in.

I would have also gone for Takakeisho - Abi - a sanyaku matchup that we are now not seeing in a basho where three top guys are out. It's almost like they are punishing Okinoumi for the bad shimpan call.

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7 minutes ago, Catalin B said:

They don't. Okinoumi is facing Takakeisho, so one of them will have 12 points at the end of the day, therefore only they and Mitakeumi are still in.

I would have also gone for Takakeisho - Abi - a sanyaku matchup that we are now not seeing in a basho where three top guys are out. It's almost like they are punishing Okinoumi for the bad shimpan call.

Guess they wanted two of the leaders to face each other to make the Yusho race easier to resolve. Certainly an intriguing end to the basho.

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That power henka by Mitakeumi is the type I like.

Abema with ex-shimpan Shikihide only assumed that Endo was already dead body when Okinoumi touched down - nobody noticed the heel out - but the hand of the shimpan at the location with the best view went up immediately when Endo's heel went well over the bales, so he must have seen it out.

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7 hours ago, robnplunder said:

I just saw the ending which Hoshoryu looked cool, calm, and collected.   To me, he carries on like he deserves to be in Makuuchi.    Perhaps, he's the future of Mongolian post Hak and Kak.  

He will be fine in makuuchi, but he does not have the raw tools of his uncle - that lightning-quick anticipation and speed that set Asashoryu apart in the first half of his career.

Edited by Gospodin

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The Okinoumi/Endo match was really exciting and I wish it had come to a less controversial end. I'm going to withhold judgement on whether the heel was out until I see more than that grainy video feed I was watching.

Never would have guessed Hokutofuji to KK after that first week. It's impressive that he was able to do so, but where was that spirit in week one? 

Congratulations also in order for little Enho. Keep bringing the fire, guy.

I'd like to see Mitakeumi and Takakeisho win their bouts tomorrow so we can have a playoff. Just no henkas, please...

 

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53 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

That power henka by Mitakeumi is the type I like.

Abema with ex-shimpan Shikihide only assumed that Endo was already dead body when Okinoumi touched down - nobody noticed the heel out - but the hand of the shimpan at the location with the best view went up immediately when Endo's heel went well over the bales, so he must have seen it out.

We have no evidence Endo had a heel out. The gyoji checked once earlier in the match, the supposed foul happened after that, yet all video points to "no!". Did not happen. And, there was quite the delay between the supposed heel out and the hand up. Please share the drugs you are smoking.

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4 minutes ago, Otokonoyama said:

We have no evidence Endo had a heel out. The gyoji checked once earlier in the match, the supposed foul happened after that, yet all video points to "no!". Did not happen. And, there was quite the delay between the supposed heel out and the hand up. Please share the drugs you are smoking.

I'm sorry, but isn't the last part of this quote uncalled for?

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Doesn't look like Endo's heel touched to me. I'd still like to see a high-resolution zoom on the heel just for peace of mind, but the real issue here is that whether it touched or not, that absolutely called for a monoii. Letting that go in any match, let alone one of such import to the yusho race, is unconscionable. I try to cut these guys some slack (they're only human, after all), but come on.

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14 minutes ago, Dwale said:

Doesn't look like Endo's heel touched to me. I'd still like to see a high-resolution zoom on the heel just for peace of mind, but the real issue here is that whether it touched or not, that absolutely called for a monoii. Letting that go in any match, let alone one of such import to the yusho race, is unconscionable. I try to cut these guys some slack (they're only human, after all), but come on.

Even if they call a monoii the same thing is going to happen as Tochinoshin and Asanoyama - the present shimpan is just going to swear he saw it go out and overrule any video evidence.

As an isolated incident its one thing but with all the weird matta stuff, with it not being called at all in the beginning then the weird triple mattas at the end, and a couple other missed monoiis, the judging on a whole has been a cluster this basho.

Edited by Tsuchinoninjin

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Thinking about Toch vs Goeidou tomorrow ... how do they handle a "double-fusen"?  Or is that avoided through negotiations?

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4 minutes ago, Tsuchinoninjin said:

Even if they call a monoii the same thing is going to happen as Tochinoshin and Asanoyama - the present shimpan is just going to swear he saw it go out and overrule any video evidence.

As an isolated incident its one thing but with all the weird matta stuff, with it not being called at all in the beginning then the weird triple mattas at the end, and a couple other missed monoiis, the judging on a whole has been a cluster this basho.

Possibly. But they should have held one nonetheless. 

Perhaps the time has come to reform the judging process so that it better incorporates modern technology.

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5 minutes ago, Dwale said:

Possibly. But they should have held one nonetheless. 

Perhaps the time has come to reform the judging process so that it better incorporates modern technology.

Its guaranteed. He signaled the gyoji to end the fight in the first place - he can't possibly recant that. 'Oh you weren't sure but still raised your hand? Are you OK to be shimpan?' Then comes the knotty issue if the fight gets stopped, and he didn't step out, what do you do? Its really possible one or both wrestlers give up after hearing the gyoji.

They should make a precedent to just let the bout run and just automatically monoii to check the sand for marks, there's still problems with this but its probably better. Of course they aren't going to change the process in the middle of a basho.

Edited by Tsuchinoninjin

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1 hour ago, Otokonoyama said:

We have no evidence Endo had a heel out. The gyoji checked once earlier in the match, the supposed foul happened after that, yet all video points to "no!". Did not happen. And, there was quite the delay between the supposed heel out and the hand up. Please share the drugs you are smoking.

The hand went up at the same time Endo's foot went back in and likely revealed the mark - I guess the pics will come in the morning, so far none shows the crucial scene, but it's easy to spot when you go slowmo in the Abema hires live stream recording

looks quite different on the first NHK slomo though - there the heel doesn't look out

Edited by Akinomaki

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I’m late to the proceedings today, thanks to the Rugby World Cup. Let’s get the positives out the way:

Enho kachikoshi!

Tomokaze-Asanoyama. That’s a future sanyaku bout right there. Dare I say even a future Y/O matchup? (Okay, one negative: Tomokaze gets his first makekoshi.)

Terutsuyoshi gets top marks for effort, but the poor lad just couldn’t generate the power to get Takagenji over the bales.

Hokutofuji kachikoshi!

Daieisho keeps his kachikoshi hopes alive with a well-taken win over the impressive Meisei. 

Now the crap:

Aoiyama pulls a lame henka on Kotoshogiku. We’ve seen the Geek fall for that loads of times, so he should know better, but it was still lame nonetheless.

Endo was absolutely robbed there. Don’t get me wrong, I’m happy for Okinoumi to still be in the yusho hunt, but it was still lame nonetheless.

Mitakeumi. See above, re: henka. I get he’d just seen Takakeisho win and wanted to ensure he goes into tomorrow with the yusho still in his own hands, but it was still lame nonetheless.

Tochinoshin ... what an anti-climax to the day. He lost fair and square, but what an amateur way to throw your Ozeki status away. Lame.

Edited by Eikokurai
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The shimpan who raised his hand in the Okinoumi-Endo bout was Takenawa (Tochinonada): "I thought the heel was out and raised my hand, that's all." He also told it to the gyoji directly http://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20190921/sum19092121210017-n1.html

the bout was not stopped and Okinoumi thought he lost - he knew he touched down first

 

Edited by Akinomaki
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I'm so glad Hokotofuji won maybe fighting spirt prize in order if he wins tomorrow. Mitakiumi Takakeishou play off would be sweet. 

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2 hours ago, Dwale said:

Never would have guessed Hokutofuji to KK after that first week. It's impressive that he was able to do so, but where was that spirit in week one? 

As an M1 he was always going to have a tough first week. The quality of opponent had much to do with his improvement.

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I had deliberately not said anything out loud about Goeidou beating Mitakeumi and staying in the yusho race because it would jinx Goeidou, but now I realize it wouldn't have mattered in the end anyway, since Okinoumi and Takakeisho both went to 11-3 and are facing each other today. Clearly, Goeidou was fated to fail from the beginning. 

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13 minutes ago, Benevolance said:

I had deliberately not said anything out loud about Goeidou beating Mitakeumi and staying in the yusho race because it would jinx Goeidou, but now I realize it wouldn't have mattered in the end anyway, since Okinoumi and Takakeisho both went to 11-3 and are facing each other today. Clearly, Goeidou was fated to fail from the beginning. 

Hey, he's going to be highest ranked on the next banzuke out of all the rikishi who completed the basho so at least he's got that going for him.

Edited by Tsuchinoninjin
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3 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

Thinking about Toch vs Goeidou tomorrow ... how do they handle a "double-fusen"?  Or is that avoided through negotiations?

A win does nothing for Tochinoshin tomorrow so neither will he. He's far too hurt to go all out for meaningless wins and there is no reason for Goeido to just let him have it.

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Mitakeumi henka?! Has he ever done that before? I don’t recall such. Was really surprised.

Okinoumi got a win that wasn’t his, looked to me.

Takakeishō yūshō? He’s gonna be yokozuna. Happy for him he seems healed and made the right decisions.

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What a bitter day for sumo.  A sekiwake henkas an Ozeki with the yusho on the line? In a basho missing 3 Y/Os? Another questionable call to keep another in? 

As a fan I would love to be rooting for Mitakeumi and Okinoumi for the yusho but at this point the only person that actually deserves it is Takakeisho. 

Throw into the mix an Ozeki stepping out to lose his rank and you got a recipe for a crappy basho ending.  

Edited by Rocks

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Didn't Mitakeumi henka in one of the last fights during his yusho tournament? 

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