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2019 Aki Basho Discussion (spoiler alert!)

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3 hours ago, ryafuji said:

Giku reminds me of Takanonami who stuck around for a few years as an ex-ozeki doing his one trick (kimedashi in his case, gabburi in Giku's) to ever diminishing returns. I don't think he has long left on the evidence of this basho.

Konishiki (3 yusho) has set the standard for the retirement of a veteran ex-ozeki: when the drop to juryo is inevitable - no need to do it before - 5-10 at m7w and still more than 2 years to go from there till he retired

Edited by Akinomaki
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8 hours ago, robnplunder said:

They merge then split into two, the other one becoming Terunokuni who becomes jealous of his other half's success.  He plots to stop Chiyonofuji's success by stealing his mawashi, poisoning his chanko, .....      But it is Terunofuji who keeps falling apart, all the way to Jonokuchi where he finally manages to beat no other than Hattorizakura.   

 

Terunofuji for Makushita yusho! 

Ikioi for Juryo!

Mitakeumi for Makuuchi!

If I get all three right, I will go to Las Vegas to be a bookmaker.  

 

 

I predict you get no more than two. of them correct...  :)

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I love Hokotofuji ...great win and he and Abi need to exchange ranks 

Edited by Philioyamfugi
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3 hours ago, ryafuji said:

Giku reminds me of Takanonami who stuck around for a few years as an ex-ozeki doing his one trick (kimedashi in his case, gabburi in Giku's) to ever diminishing returns. I don't think he has long left on the evidence of this basho.

When I first started watching sumo five years ago, I recall an article in the Japan Times strongly suggesting that Hakuho should retire. Before he embarrasses himself... (not exact wording, but captures the flavor of the article). I'm not certain how many yusho he racked up over the next four years, but I know that he won 3 of the 4 basho that I personally attended. 

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1 minute ago, Thundersnow said:

When I first started watching sumo five years ago, I recall an article in the Japan Times strongly suggesting that Hakuho should retire. Before he embarrasses himself... (not exact wording, but captures the flavor of the article). I'm not certain how many yusho he racked up over the next four years, but I know that he won 3 of the 4 basho that I personally attended. 

Wouldn't be this one, would it? Ah, the much missed Mark Buckton.

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2 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Wouldn't be this one, would it? Ah, the much missed Mark Buckton.

LOL, I think that may be it, but I can't read it because I've maxed out on Japan Times without subscribing. My friend who was with me at the time and I still laugh about that article, and how embarrassed the author must be to have written such rot. He and I are not only fairly serious sumo fans (ignorant as we may still be, we at least watch the highlights every day of every basho), but we've drawn a number of other folks into watching the sport, including some of our Japanese friends. OK, to draw this back to the current basho, Kotoshogiku may be struggling a bit, but Enho is better than a lot of folks here are willing to admit. What he's doing is exceptional. I could see Kotoshogiku staying in Makuuchi for a couple of more years. He's not sanyaku material at the moment, but I wouldn't count the boy out on any given day.

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10 minutes ago, Thundersnow said:

LOL, I think that may be it, but I can't read it because I've maxed out on Japan Times without subscribing.

Right click on the link -> open in private window. Works fine for me with Vivaldi (Chromium engine) browser. ;)

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I thought Takakeisho would struggle to get 7-8 wins, now he's almost certain to get his required 10 and might even win the yusho... I mean who else is there to grab it?

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27 minutes ago, Benihana said:

Right click on the link -> open in private window. Works fine for me with Vivaldi (Chromium engine) browser. ;)

Deleting cookies works, too.

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Tomokaze managed to move on the plus side again. He's already faced all the sanyaku so he's got a pretty decent chance to extend his kachikoshi basho record. Alongside with Takakeisho's return to Ozeki that would be one of the best stories to come of this basho. 

As much as I like Asanoyama, I've got an even softer spot for Hokutofuji so I'm happy that he kept a chance for kachikoshi. That was one of the better bouts today. 

And even if Kotoshogiku is old and worn out, beating an ex-Ozeki is a new landmark in Enho's career. Though I have to say, every time I see him trying to throw a rikishi 70kg heavier than himself one-handed I'm filled with dread expecting his hand just to break off or something. Scary stuff. 

 

 

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Very happy for my man Hokutofuji so far this week!

I've also been enjoying Takarafuji's wrestling, so looking forward to his match against Enho on day 12 and potentially his bid for unlikely winner of this basho. Takakeisho, of course, is the favourite unless his knee buckles again in the following days - and things have been looking pretty scary for him since his loss on day 6. Still rooting for someone else to take this but also hope Takakeisho can stay out of trouble.

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Giku may be fading but his sumo is still pretty solid and it's not like he's been teetering at M16. He even got a kinboshi last basho!

Go on Geek, go on (Clappingwildly...)

 

Edited by Katooshu
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1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

Deleting cookies works, too.

D'oh! So obvious. Never thought of that. Now I can read my least favourite newspapers without paying them even more. Thanks for enabling me to worsen my quality of life. 

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8 hours ago, Koorifuu said:

Enho's yorikiri on Kotoshogiku is a much bigger reflection of the latter's physical deterioration than the former's skill.

I think that's a bit unfair on Kotoshogiku. Enho's shortness of stature plus the submarining (which he doesn't always use, but did to great effect here) simply is a terrible match for Giku's gabburi style, and he just doesn't have that many other useful weapons in his arsenal.


 

6 hours ago, RPedro44 said:

A former Ozeki losing to Enho, Sadanoumi or Shimanoumi? Not acceptable.

Oh please. Wannabe career advisor comments such as that one are getting old. He'll retire when he's ready to do so, not when people with misguided "must protect his legacy" notions say he should. As it should be.

Edited by Asashosakari
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On 14/09/2019 at 05:42, sumojoann said:

It's too soon to tell, of course, but I predict that Meisei will win the Yusho.  It looks like Kakuryu will go kyujo probably today, Hakuho is out for the count, Okinoumi's nerves are starting to show, Takakeisho is having some bad luck and  Ishiura is too small.  Meisei's biggest obstacle is Mitakeumi who's looking very good.  We'll see......

Back on Sept 14th, I went out on a limb and predicted that Meisei would win the Yusho.  I still predict he will, although if Takakeisho's knees hold out, Meisei may not be able to defeat him.  Very little is being mentioned about Meisei possibly winning.  He may not be exciting to watch but he's solid and consistent.  He must be doing something right to be currently tied for first place, although I don't think he's fought the higher-ranked Rikishi yet.   I hope he gets to fight the "Big Boys" so we can see what's he's really made of!  That would be so cool to see someone at M10 win the Yusho, but it may just be wishful thinking on my part.

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Remember this guy?

20190917-OHT1I50194-N.jpg

That's the present Asakishin before he entered Takasago-beya

20190917-OHT1I50193-N.jpg
Since last Kyushu basho Asakishin (now 184cm, 140kg) is Asanoyama's tsukebito and his muscle training coach - as such he helped him to the yusho and his present form. http://hochi.news/articles/20190917-OHT1T50224.html

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2 hours ago, Sumo_da said:

I thought Takakeisho would struggle to get 7-8 wins, now he's almost certain to get his required 10 and might even win the yusho... I mean who else is there to grab it?

Goeid...:'-(

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6 hours ago, dingo said:

 

And even if Kotoshogiku is old and worn out, beating an ex-Ozeki is a new landmark in Enho's career. Though I have to say, every time I see him trying to throw a rikishi 70kg heavier than himself one-handed I'm filled with dread expecting his hand just to break off or something. Scary stuff. 

 

 

This. I was watching that bout yesterday and thinking the guy is going to end his career with buggered shoulders and elbows. There is only so much punishment your body can take and routinely fighting guys 50+kgs heavier than you and 15cm taller than means you will take a lot of punishment. I enjoy watching him but I worry that he is going to really hurt himself badly 

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29 minutes ago, Morty said:

This. I was watching that bout yesterday and thinking the guy is going to end his career with buggered shoulders and elbows. There is only so much punishment your body can take and routinely fighting guys 50+kgs heavier than you and 15cm taller than means you will take a lot of punishment. I enjoy watching him but I worry that he is going to really hurt himself badly 

Sumo is punishing to the body no matter one's size. He might get hurt badly, true, but so may anyone else. Even Hakuho is a walking mass of injuries at this point. On the other hand, I'd wager Enho fares better in old age than most other rikishi. 

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5 hours ago, sumojoann said:

Back on Sept 14th, I went out on a limb and predicted that Meisei would win the Yusho.  I still predict he will, although if Takakeisho's knees hold out, Meisei may not be able to defeat him.  Very little is being mentioned about Meisei possibly winning.  He may not be exciting to watch but he's solid and consistent.  He must be doing something right to be currently tied for first place, although I don't think he's fought the higher-ranked Rikishi yet.   I hope he gets to fight the "Big Boys" so we can see what's he's really made of!  That would be so cool to see someone at M10 win the Yusho, but it may just be wishful thinking on my part.

Lower rankers in the yusho race only tend to get matched up with the “Big Boys” if they’re leading or share the lead, which Meisei currently does. If he’s still tied with or ahead of Takakeisho after today or tomorrow, he may get sanyaku opponents at the weekend. If he’s trailing by then, he probably won’t. Recently they’ve not been giving the more junior of the yusho contenders an opportunity to determine their own fate in that way. I suppose that’s one of the privileges of rank.

Edited by Eikokurai
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3 hours ago, Morty said:

This. I was watching that bout yesterday and thinking the guy is going to end his career with buggered shoulders and elbows. There is only so much punishment your body can take and routinely fighting guys 50+kgs heavier than you and 15cm taller than means you will take a lot of punishment. I enjoy watching him but I worry that he is going to really hurt himself badly 

He's already toned it down significantly though, or maybe refined it. His early stuff below juryo was frequently total car crash viewing with him rushing the opponent and himself off the dohyo with reckless abandon.

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Just to touch on some comments made the other day, Is Enho really that much more repetitive than the average rikishi? Most have a clear stylistic leaning that sees them execute a fairly narrow range of techniques far more than others--perhaps it's easiest to identify the numerous rikishi who start pretty much every match looking to score with pushing attacks. And despite his lack of size, I find he's often the one looking to go right in there, get a grip in close, and drive the opponent out or throw him down, with less 'avoidance sumo' than someone like Ishiura. Out of the smaller guys he's probably been my favourite to watch in the 4 years I've been following.

Edited by Katooshu
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Having read the talk about former ozeki competing, there are a couple of things I would like to point out. There have been several ex-ozeki who went to have careers in the mid to lower makuuchi division for a while, and there are actually a few (besides Terunofuji) who did attempt to compete in juryo. Just because an ozeki falls from the rank, there is no standard like yokozuna that they should retire as soon as lose the rank. Below is a list I was able to compile:

Kaiketsu: the only wrestler to have regained his ozeki rank through the standard means held by the NSK

- There are actually more ex-ozeki than you would think that actually competed post ozeki in sanyaku and hiramaku. They wrestled until it was imminent that they would fall to juryo. As many as six wrestlers in the 50's and 60's alone did this, so it is hard to say that Konishiki set a standard. Recent examples do include Konishiki, Kirishima, Takanonami, and Dejima

- Baruto sat out at M6 in his last basho in the top division, when he was ranked in juryo the next basho, he promptly retired 

- Miyabiyama was not the first ex-ozeki to actually compete in juryo. That "honor" belongs to Daiju. After an 0-3 start in his attempt to wrestle in juryo, Daiju withdrew and from the tournament and retired. Miyabiyama though is the first ex-ozeki to successfully return from juryo to the top division. His last basho he was ranked in juryo again and attempted to return again, but a poor start convinced him to retire

- And as we obviously know, Terunofuji is the first ex-ozeki to fall to the unsalaried ranks, falling so far as jonidan. However his persistence to come back now sees him in the playoff for the makushita yusho, inching closer to sekitorihood

 

You also have to keep in mind that Kotoshogiku is making more money right now as a wrestler, even in the hiramaku than he will as a toshiyori. And he is wanting to milk those kinboshi as long as possible. There will probably come that point when he will not continue in juryo, but he is not showing that yet. That is why I do not comprehend those who would call on him to retire now, let him do what he wants.

Edited by WAKATAKE
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4 minutes ago, Katooshu said:

Just to touch on some comments made the other day, Is Enho really that much more repetitive than the average rikishi? Most have a clear stylistic leaning that sees them execute a fairly narrow range of techniques far more than others. And despite his lack of size, I find he's often the one looking to go right in there, get a grip in close, and drive the opponent out or throw him down, with much less 'avoidance sumo' than someone like Ishiua. I enjoy watching him for the most part and don't get an annoying vibe at all. 

I'd vote for Enho having the most entertaining style of sumo.   And ... the little guy has no fear, and no business with mixing up with opponents twice his size.  Yet, he goes head on (literally) and beats the giants in their game.   I can repeatedly see that over and over again (redundant I know).    We should all enjoy  (God forbid, knock on wood, salt over our shoulders) until a major injury takes him out of the game.  

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