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New Takanofuji Scandal

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Related to the "only Ms1-5 count for promotion now" topic getting fodder elsewhere: Since he's presumably going to be on the next banzuke now either way (intai or only some kind of suspension), they damn well better have dropped Takanofuji to at least Ms6e.

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link is dead. i guess the conflict had personal background? i never really understand why law only cares who was the first person to swung first, and not whether he was provoked and how.

 

for all we know the second person could have ruined his whole life, then he attacks him, and boom the provoked guy gets penalized or goes to jail :V

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Written explanation of the assault by Takanofuji  today:

Takanofuji returned to Juryo in March, 2019, and was assigned tsukebitos by Chiganoura Oyakata..  One of them was person A (the victim) from Jonidan, but he was dismissed because some said he  "can't do the job, so he is of no use during honbasho. "A did other stuff tsukebitos do, but as suspected, did not do anything well. He was asked to clean the toilet but  forgot and generally had a lot of stuff he couldn't do. Takanofuji then dropped to Makushita, so no more tsukebitos after May 2019. But back he came in July after getting the Makushita yusho, and back came tsukebito A

A was doing  better this time, but still he was inept at some jobs unrelated to being a tsukebito - for example, the preparation of chanko and the cleaning up afterwards This work was also handled by the other two young tsukebito who ran away with him later. These three would not reply when talked to by other sekitori as well . Before leaving for Nagoya Takanofuji asked them why they weren't replying, to which they apologized  "All the seniors are taking care of you guys, you know," he explained to them.

" Even if they didn't hear what they were told to do, they would just answer 'yes yes', so when they were asked  "Do  you actually  know what you're answering to"  they would reply "Sorry, I didn't hear you.." "That won't work!" answered  Takanofuji. The whole two weeks before the Nagoya Basho went on like this daily.

“It's common in our organization that when a senpai asks for something to be done, it gets done. They repeatedly ignored my requests for three - four days, and I was beginning to get annoyed. I became nervous. When I was a new disciple, I was extra careful to do what I was told so I wouldn't get cautioned and tried hard to remember everything i was told to do. I was wondering  what I could do so that he would remember everything I asked of him. I was entrusted by my Oyakata to teach him stuff, and it wasn't working, and this was stressing me out. The next day  at the chanko-ba, he again did not do a single thing asked of him. It seemed like he would be able to do one thing and then take three steps away and  would already forget all the other things.

"On August 31 after  the YDC soken I went back to my heya. At that time, most of the younger rikishi were in the bath already and getting their mages done and waiting for my return. "Thank you for letting us use the bath first," said most of the rikishi. The three Jonidan rikishi only said, “Zaus (don't know what that means, but probably some grunt acknowledging the sekitori's presence and not very polite..).” "In the past I told them that when a sekitori arrives and  the lower rankers take a bath first , they should say hello properly. However, I was waiting for a greeting when I got back in the bath but it never came. Even when I got out of the bath-still nothing. 'At least greet me correctly!' , I said. Then I hit him lightly on the head with my fist , it's not like I hit him squarely with my fist. After all, it's natural that the young guys enter the baths first, but it is  customary that when we arrive they greet us accordingly. Everyone in the heya knows this custom and acts accordingly," he summed.

Edited by Kintamayama
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12 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Written explanation of the assault by Takanofuji  today:

Takanofuji returned to Juryo in March, 2019, and was assigned tsukebitos by Chiganoura Oyakata..  One of them was person A (the victim) from Jonidan, but he was dismissed because some said he  "can't do the job, so he is of no use during honbasho. "A did other stuff tsukebitos do, but as suspected, did not do anything well. He was asked to clean the toilet but  forgot and generally had a lot of stuff he couldn't do. Takanofuji then dropped to Makushita, so no more tsukebitos after May 2019. But back he came in July after getting the Makushita yusho, and back came tsukebito A

A was doing  better this time, but still he was inept at some jobs unrelated to being a tsukebito - for example, the preparation of chanko and the cleaning up afterwards This work was also handled by the other two young tsukebito who ran away with him later. These three would not reply when talked to by other sekitori as well . Before leaving for Nagoya Takanofuji asked them why they weren't replying, to which they apologized  "All the seniors are taking care of you guys, you know," he explained to them.

" Even if they didn't hear what they were told to do, they would just answer 'yes yes', so when they were asked  "Do  you actually  know what you're answering to"  they would reply "Sorry, I didn't hear you.." "That won't work!" answered  Takanofuji. The whole two weeks before the Nagoya Basho went on like this daily.

“It's common in our organization that when a senpai asks for something to be done, it gets done. They repeatedly ignored my requests for three - four days, and I was beginning to get annoyed. I became nervous. When I was a new disciple, I was extra careful to do what I was told so I wouldn't get cautioned and tried hard to remember everything i was told to do. I was wondering  what I could do so that he would remember everything I asked of him. I was entrusted by my Oyakata to teach him stuff, and it wasn't working, and this was stressing me out. The next day  at the chanko-ba, he again did not do a single thing asked of him. It seemed like he would be able to do one thing and then take three steps away and  would already forget all the other things.

"On August 31 after  the YDC soken I went back to my heya. At that time, most of the younger rikishi were in the bath already and getting their mages done and waiting for my return. "Thank you for letting us use the bath first," said most of the rikishi. The three Jonidan rikishi only said, “Zaus (don't know what that means, but probably some grunt acknowledging the sekitori's presence and not very polite..).” "In the past I told them that when a sekitori arrives and  the lower rankers take a bath first , they should say hello properly. However, I was waiting for a greeting when I got back in the bath but it never came. Even when I got out of the bath-still nothing. 'At least greet me correctly!' , I said. Then I hit him lightly on the head with my fist , it's not like I hit him squarely with my fist. After all, it's natural that the young guys enter the baths first, but it is  customary that when we arrive they greet us accordingly. Everyone in the heya knows this custom and acts accordingly," he summed.

I'm not a specialist but I think ざあすis like あざす or ありざす it's a contracted and casual form of ありがとうございます。

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35 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

I'm not a specialist but I think ざあすis like あざす or ありざす it's a contracted and casual form of ありがとうございます。

Probably..

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Takagenji will likely get a punishment as well - salary reduction for a few months - as being also responsible for the disappearance of the 3 young rikishi. In the hearings he admitted harsh training, though not other violence - related persons get furious about mixing that with the violence case. http://www.sponichi.co.jp/sports/news/2019/09/25/kiji/20190925s00005000387000c.html

Edited by Akinomaki
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3 hours ago, Rainoyama said:

I'm not a specialist but I think ざあすis like あざす or ありざす it's a contracted and casual form of ありがとうございます。

That is correct, I used it when I worked in Japan

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4 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Written explanation of the assault by Takanofuji  today:

Takanofuji returned to Juryo in March, 2019, and was assigned tsukebitos by Chiganoura Oyakata..  One of them was person A (the victim) from Jonidan, but he was dismissed because some said he  "can't do the job, so he is of no use during honbasho. "A did other stuff tsukebitos do, but as suspected, did not do anything well. He was asked to clean the toilet but  forgot and generally had a lot of stuff he couldn't do. Takanofuji then dropped to Makushita, so no more tsukebitos after May 2019. But back he came in July after getting the Makushita yusho, and back came tsukebito A

A was doing  better this time, but still he was inept at some jobs unrelated to being a tsukebito - for example, the preparation of chanko and the cleaning up afterwards This work was also handled by the other two young tsukebito who ran away with him later. These three would not reply when talked to by other sekitori as well . Before leaving for Nagoya Takanofuji asked them why they weren't replying, to which they apologized  "All the seniors are taking care of you guys, you know," he explained to them.

" Even if they didn't hear what they were told to do, they would just answer 'yes yes', so when they were asked  "Do  you actually  know what you're answering to"  they would reply "Sorry, I didn't hear you.." "That won't work!" answered  Takanofuji. The whole two weeks before the Nagoya Basho went on like this daily.

“It's common in our organization that when a senpai asks for something to be done, it gets done. They repeatedly ignored my requests for three - four days, and I was beginning to get annoyed. I became nervous. When I was a new disciple, I was extra careful to do what I was told so I wouldn't get cautioned and tried hard to remember everything i was told to do. I was wondering  what I could do so that he would remember everything I asked of him. I was entrusted by my Oyakata to teach him stuff, and it wasn't working, and this was stressing me out. The next day  at the chanko-ba, he again did not do a single thing asked of him. It seemed like he would be able to do one thing and then take three steps away and  would already forget all the other things.

"On August 31 after  the YDC soken I went back to my heya. At that time, most of the younger rikishi were in the bath already and getting their mages done and waiting for my return. "Thank you for letting us use the bath first," said most of the rikishi. The three Jonidan rikishi only said, “Zaus (don't know what that means, but probably some grunt acknowledging the sekitori's presence and not very polite..).” "In the past I told them that when a sekitori arrives and  the lower rankers take a bath first , they should say hello properly. However, I was waiting for a greeting when I got back in the bath but it never came. Even when I got out of the bath-still nothing. 'At least greet me correctly!' , I said. Then I hit him lightly on the head with my fist , it's not like I hit him squarely with my fist. After all, it's natural that the young guys enter the baths first, but it is  customary that when we arrive they greet us accordingly. Everyone in the heya knows this custom and acts accordingly," he summed.

This is an extremely interesting peek into a world so foreign to my modern western form of life. They navigate by a different moral compass than me, and I feel that me passing judgement on their behaviour would be wrong. Thanks so much for this translation!

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2 hours ago, Kaioshoryu said:

This is an extremely interesting peek into a world so foreign to my modern western form of life. They navigate by a different moral compass than me, and I feel that me passing judgement on their behaviour would be wrong. Thanks so much for this translation!

I am from a similar culture and can tell you that senpai relationship often goes both ways.   Sort of, you listen to me and I lead you the right way (Yoshikaze comes to my mind).   The problem is that some senpai only "takes" becoming too much of a bully and nothing more.   The question is, was Takanofuji a classic bully or behaved properly as a senpai?  I wouldn't know but based on his and his twin brother's past behavior, I am inclined to go with the three runaways.  

Edited by robnplunder
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1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

I am from a similar culture and can tell you that senpai relationship often goes both ways.   Sort of, you listen to me and I lead you the right way (Yoshikaze comes to my mind).   The problem is that some senpai only "takes" becoming too much of a bully and nothing more.   The question is, was Takanofuji a classic bully or behaved properly as a senpai?  I wouldn't know but based on his and his twin brother's past behavior, I am inclined to go with the three runaways.  

Yes, I agree, especially the way the disclosure is written. He just totally throws them under the bus in every aspect (chores, greeting, forgetful). Actual senpai would never just trash his kohai like that in front of some 3rd party. Just in that sense its clear he doesn't consider the relationship like senpai-kohai, more like slaves.

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10 hours ago, Rainoyama said:

I'm not a specialist but I think ざあすis like あざす or ありざす it's a contracted and casual form of ありがとうございます。

おはようございます。Ohayou gozaimasu. Often abbreviated to "Zasu". 

Standard  greeting upon meeting the first time in a day.

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We'll know the punishment in a few minutes, but in the meantime, two lower rankers came forward in his defense. "Whenever he is on the keiko-ba things get serious. I have learned a lot from him and thanks to his leadership I was able to win last basho," said one of them. "I think it would be great if he stayed on and continued to work with us. It would be a shame if he were to be expelled," he summed.

Edited by Kintamayama
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The rijikai decided today to demand from Takanofuji to retire voluntarily.

201909260000581-w200_0.jpgo 20190926-OHT1I50101-N.jpgo m.jpgo m.jpg 201909260000911-w200_0.jpgo

Takagenji gets a reprimand and Chiganoura-oyakata a pay reduction.

201909260000770-w200_0.jpgo AS20190926001845_commL.jpgo 201909260000770-w200_1.jpgo

http://www.asahi.com/articles/ASM9T5J94M9TUTQP01B.html

tomorrow the press conference by Takanofuji

20190926-190350-1-0000_m.jpgo 4.jpgob_12736832.jpgo

Edited by Akinomaki
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Complicated. Takanofuji was not asked to resign today by the rijikai. The compliance committee's report was revealed, (they recommended him to retire), but the rijikai decided to leave it up to him. "He's still young. so the rijikai has shown some sympathy.." explained Shibatayama PR head. If he doesn't decide to comply with the compliance committee's findings, they will go back to the Compliance guys and reconvene for a special rijikai. It appears that he was bullying 4 new recruits and others who arrived in July, nicknaming them "Chicken", "young chicken", pedigree chicken" etc. and that's how he would refer to them. They were new and did not do their job well, which apparently annoyed Takanofuji. "Hey chicken!" he would call out, and the guy would answer "yes!" . "Not yes, cock a doodle do!!" he would answer. "Cock a doodle do!!" the deshi would shout. Then he got angry that the guys took a bath before him and did not greet him properly after the soken ( they were soken wet already?) and hit one of them with his fist across his forehead.. The guy that got knocked on his forehead had a visible lump for a few days. Takanofuji is slated to hold a press conference tomorrow. His legal guys: "We can't accept the punishment. From a legal point of view, it is unjust and we will contest this." 

Oyakata got a 20% pay reduction for 6 months.

And now, we move to Takagenji, the twin brother. He did not attack the 4 guys physically, but he did some other fun stuff. When the 4 newbies/lower rankers forgot to do stuff or did not greet him as is customary he had some punishments. "Choose between doing some push-ups, a fine or not going out of the heya!" he demanded, and forced them to do some push-ups. Sometimes when one of the guys neglected his duties, he forced all 4 of them to do push-ups as a collective punishment, 2 sets of 30 push-ups. During Nagoya, one of the lads forgot to do something. Takagenji made him raise his arm in the air (in front of the other three) and repeat "I am dumb!" Then he whipped out his mobile phone and took a video of this. The compliance committee did not like this at all, especially the collective punishment part. "He went too far with the 'leadership' thing.It was totally unreasonable.Making the kid say he was dumb was totally uncalled for," said the committee. "As he has no priors, unlike his twin brother, and is reflecting on his deeds and has said he will never do this again, we will settle for a fine this time," the report added.

Edited by Kintamayama
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52 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

 His legal guys: "We can't accept the punishment. From a legal point of view, it is unjust and we will contest this." 

 

They're contesting the decision to... leave it in Takanofuji's hands whether he retires or not?

 

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

The rijikai decided today to demand from Takanofuji to retire voluntarily.

That's a contradiction in terms.

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11 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

That's a contradiction in terms.

That's reality

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Both brothers frankly come across as stereotypical dumb-as-fuck jocks who just don't have the mental ability to obtain respect through anything other than bullying tactics.

Edited by Asashosakari
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34 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

That's reality

Well it's not what Kintamayama reported just after you. The compliance committee wanted to demand he retire "voluntarily" but the rijikai have not done that.

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58 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

They're contesting the decision to... leave it in Takanofuji's hands whether he retires or not?

 

That's a contradiction in terms.

It's called an offer you cannot refuse. 

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Is the difference that to "retire voluntarily" means he keeps all of his deferred salary and other bonuses?

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Yes it's what the match-fixing by text message guys were offered - retire or we'll expel you and you won't get your benefits.

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He has proved himself a true deshi of his shiso Takanohana-oyakata...

Do not go gentle into that good night. Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay, Rage, rage against the dying of the light. Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight, And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way, Do not go gentle into that good night.

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40 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Well it's not what Kintamayama reported just after you. The compliance committee wanted to demand he retire "voluntarily" but the rijikai have not done that.

He reported the same in detail. The council wanted an official intai-kankoku - a demand to retire by himself. He would have refused that as well, since he already has written to the Sports Agency. The NSK now demands from him to do that voluntarily - the difference is just that it's a different feeling - else they call the council again to renew the demand and maybe in the end issue a discharge.

That's the old samurai tradition: an order to voluntarily commit seppuku and keep your honor and the benefits for you family, or get executed in shame if you refuse. In modern Japan this is the demand to sincerely apologize for and feel regret for a "sin" - even if you had done nothing wrong - and then you have to pretend to do it sincerely and really feel the regret that you have done it.

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1 hour ago, ryafuji said:

They're contesting the decision to... leave it in Takanofuji's hands whether he retires or not?

 

No, they are contesting the blemish and will fight to let him stay with his honor and name intact。As I understand, it's just a formality- Akinomaki said it much better: 'That's the old samurai tradition: an order to voluntarily commit seppuku and keep your honor and the benefits for you family, or get executed in shame if you refuse". As I wrote at the very start- complicated.  Even more complicated is what Shibatayama said-  "He's still young. so the rijikai has shown some sympathy.."  which hints at a possibility that he may survive this, though I highly doubt it personally. There's also the Compliance committee-it looks like the rijikai wants it to be seen that they have real power, as the rijikai is essentially leaving everything to them, when they convene again to discuss this hot potato delivered to their doorstep.

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