Kaminariyuki

Enho - predictions?

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I'm not on Facebook, but on Twitter I've run into bits and pieces of what since_94 describes - and quite frankly, it's a bit on the creepy side when grown men are being referred to in terms better suited to pre-teen pageantry contests, and quite obliviously so by those doing it. It's not restricted to Enho, but he's certainly the highest-profile rikishi getting that treatment right now.

Edited by Asashosakari

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10 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I'm not on Facebook, but on Twitter I've run into bits and pieces of what since_94 describes - and quite frankly, it's a bit on the creepy side when grown men are being referred to in terms better suited to pre-teen pageantry contests, and quite obliviously so by those doing it. It's not restricted to Enho, but he's certainly the highest-profile rikishi getting that treatment right now.

Who are the people writing these things? I’d get it if it were young women, less so if it was middle-aged western men.

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8 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Who are the people writing these things? I’d get it if it were young women, less so if it was middle-aged western men.

Well, since you've brought it up: I'd say it's mostly women on the wrong side of 50. I don't think it even has that much to do with Enho, per se - I've seen the same thing about actors and other celebrities. Some people just can't help but treat celebs like they're children or pets. I doubt it's that common with athletes normally, but the exoticness surrounding sumo probably contributes to making it a target.

(In the interest of balance I'll add the disclaimer that the way men often talk about female celebrities isn't any better. Men sexualize, women infantilize. Both behaviours are creepy and evidence of a serious lack of emotional distance to these people who are simply doing their jobs in the various entertainment industries.)

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29 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

I'm not on Facebook, but on Twitter I've run into bits and pieces of what since_94 describes - and quite frankly, it's a bit on the creepy side when grown men are being referred to in terms better suited to pre-teen pageantry contests, and quite obliviously so by those doing it. It's not restricted to Enho, but he's certainly the highest-profile rikishi getting that treatment right now.

It’s caused me to think about the way comments focused on a public persona ’s superficial physical attributes come across. I’m not at all used to reading (mostly female) posters objectifying and swooning over athletes, or anyone else, this way. These just aren’t chats I am privy to, on or offline. Frankly, it’s not the kind of discussion I want to be a part of, especially in, but not limited to, the context of sport and martial arts. However, free speech and all that. When desperate sounding guys chime in on discussions of Miwa Asao or Danica Patrick or Maria Sharapova or whomever, it probably makes women who just want to talk about sport feel the same way as we do—somewhat grossed out and exasperated because it has no real place in such discussions. Plus, anybody’s fandom gets decidedly weird when it crosses into cult of personality territory.

Edited by since_94
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6 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Well, since you've brought it up: I'd say it's mostly women on the wrong side of 50. I don't think it even has that much to do with Enho, per se - I've seen the same thing about actors and other celebrities. Some people just can't help but treat celebs like they're children or pets. I doubt it's that common with athletes normally, but the exoticness surrounding sumo probably contributes to making it a target.

(In the interest of balance I'll add the disclaimer that the way men often talk about female celebrities isn't any better. Men sexualize, women infantilize. Both behaviours are creepy and evidence of a serious lack of emotional distance to these people who are simply doing their jobs in the various entertainment industries.)

Yeah, I know the phenomenon you describe rather too well unfortunately. I’ll be forever confused about celebrity culture.

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I like Enhou because he’s simply a very skilled rikishi and has, contrary to my expectations, been able to hold his own with the big guys so far, after three bashos. I watched all his bouts again, and none of them had shifty, cheap moves that repeated themselves every bout. He attempted a wide range of tactics, sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't. He's no Ishiura in that aspect, for sure. So , guys under 1.69 have no business doing sumo? Guys like that have no chance to go anywhere by doing power on power sumo. We haven't had a guy like this in a while, and no, the much hyped Takanoyama was not anywhere near Enhou's achievements thus far to say the least , with his 0 kachikoshis in Makuuchi. People adore Enhou and have his poster on their bedroom wall and say it out loud? Big deal. It's not like he's the king of henka and all his bouts are a letdown. Most of his bouts are actually quite long and exciting. Some people don't like him? Very good. Makes me happier when he finishes with a 9-6 at M11 in their faces. And he's not even on my top 5 favorite rikishi list. 

Edited by Kintamayama
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8 hours ago, since_94 said:

 “cherub cheeked little pixie”

Oh man, that is a little over the top...

I'm fine with folks rooting against Enho. And, I understand that sentiment when someone bests one of your favorites. I still hold a particular victory of Katayaki over Ura. I've been an Enho fan since Kintamayama posted the first Enho Juryo bout, maybe in 2018. When I was in Japan and told folks I was an Enho fan in Japanese, they universally corrected me (not common in Japan), "Oh, Endo?" There are more screaming teenage girls at the basho, but I'm fine with that. They've had other favorites over the years, Abi for example, but if there are no young fans the sport will simply die a slow death.

Even though I'm a big Enho fan, I thought since_94 comments were completely reasonable. 

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8 hours ago, Gernobono said:

Failed miserably.

I completely dislike his way of sumo and tried to jinx him.

That is hilarious, and means nobody thought he'd go KK? Extraordinary. And, what don't you like about his sumo? Seems pretty straight up, except for his size. He doesn't use any odd judo stuff, or Ura wildness. Not giving you a difficult time, just curious.

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6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I like Enhou because he’s simply a very skilled rikishi and has, contrary to my guessing, been able to hold his own with the big guys so far, after three bashos. I watched all his bouts again, and none of them had shifty, cheap moves that repeated themselves every bout. He attempted a wide range of tactics, sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't. He's no Ishiura in that aspect, for sure. So , guys under 1.69 have no business doing sumo? Guys like that have no chance to go anywhere by doing power on power sumo. We haven't had a guy like this in a while, and no, the much hyped Takanoyama was not anywhere near Enhou's achievements thus far to say the least , with his 0 kachikoshis. People adore Enhou and have his poster on their bedroom wall and say it out loud? Big deal. It's not like he's the king of henka and all his bouts are a letdown. Most of his bouts are actually quite long and exciting. Some people don't like him? Very good. Makes me happier when he finishes with a 9-6 at M11 in their faces. And he's not even on my top 5 favorite rikishi list. 

Pretty much this.

For all the hype he has now, I remember when he turned pro and some people commented that he'd be going nowhere because of his size, and that made me hope for his success early on. I also think that sometimes people see the lack of size and immediately pigeonhole him into a certain style that he doesn't actually have--the stereotypical little guy henka-ing and evading and trying funny stuff non-stop. In reality, most of the time he's looking to get under and in on opponents so he can just throw them down or drive them straight out. Aside from how low he comes in, which is going to happen at 168cm or whatever it is,  I don't find him to be much of a trickster. 

Edited by Katooshu
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6 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I like Enhou because he’s simply a very skilled rikishi and has, contrary to my guessing, been able to hold his own with the big guys so far, after three bashos. I watched all his bouts again, and none of them had shifty, cheap moves that repeated themselves every bout. He attempted a wide range of tactics, sometimes they worked, sometimes they didn't. He's no Ishiura in that aspect, for sure. So , guys under 1.69 have no business doing sumo? Guys like that have no chance to go anywhere by doing power on power sumo. We haven't had a guy like this in a while, and no, the much hyped Takanoyama was not anywhere near Enhou's achievements thus far to say the least , with his 0 kachikoshis. People adore Enhou and have his poster on their bedroom wall and say it out loud? Big deal. It's not like he's the king of henka and all his bouts are a letdown. Most of his bouts are actually quite long and exciting. Some people don't like him? Very good. Makes me happier when he finishes with a 9-6 at M11 in their faces. And he's not even on my top 5 favorite rikishi list. 

I always appreciate your analyses, never mind the videos when I need a sumo fix at lunch during the basho! 

I hadn't quite comprehended the extent of the fandom adoration. I can't put myself in that category, but since I've been a fan of Ura, Ishiura and Enho, I guess I have to admit that I do like the smaller guys doing well, even when they're not doing straight-up oshi-zumo and yotsu.

It's somewhat remarkable that there are no weight divisions in professional sumo, and I think it's quite remarkable what Enho's done so far. I don't see how he can go much higher with KKs, but I may have to query everyone in November again, just to see if folks are being swayed by his performance. The rest of makuuchi will become more accustomed to his style and the novelty of his size, so I suspect things will get a bit tougher. I am very entertained that the word seems to be out, "don't let the youngster in the red mawashi on your belt." Hilarious, truly.

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2 hours ago, Thundersnow said:

That is hilarious, and means nobody thought he'd go KK?

My name is Nobody

On 30/08/2019 at 07:51, Akinomaki said:

If he doesn't aggravate or add injury, kachikoshi - but no prize

and even the no prize was spot on

Edited by Akinomaki

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5 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

My name is Nobody

and even the no prize was spot on

Ah, my apologies, you did make exactly that prediction. As I scanned the responses, I probably missed it because your prediction was at the bottom of some other very interesting info. Even without predicting a score, your prognostication clearly equals or surpasses any of the other responses. Nicely done!

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Before he joined pro sumo. Hokaho / Hakuho. A bit of a Miyagino-beya tryout.

 

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Seeing that ^ puts me a little in awe of Hakuho's judgement and coaching skills. I mean, how did he see the potential in a diminutive, baby-faced wannabe he could easily throw right across the heya with one hand?

Also kind of reminded me of what happened just after Gimli told Aragorn, "You'll have to toss me."

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3 hours ago, Otokonoyama said:

Before he joined pro sumo. Hokaho / Hakuho. A bit of a Miyagino-beya tryout.

 

This doesn't look like Myagino heya, although clearly a couple of Miyagino'a rikishi. Of course, Miyagino may have changed locations, as well, for all I know. 

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The thing that I noticed immediately, was that there were no rice bales at the edge of the dohyo. Of course this is just a practice ring, but I would have thought that learning how to use the tawara to your advantage, and to be able to do the tawara two-step, were essential things for a rikishi to learn and practice.

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Here's one of Hokaho leading a Keiko exercise a few days before the Htsu basho 2020. I don't know the other rikishi's name, although I wish I'd identified everyone at practice that day. The younger guy had done this practice (keiko?) at least 5 or 6 times already. 

https://youtu.be/vFAEtib48YI

 

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There are certainly rice bales in these last two videos, but I would be concerned about how small the room is. Anyone flying off this dohyo is going to slam straight into the walls!

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58 minutes ago, Getayukata said:

The thing that I noticed immediately, was that there were no rice bales at the edge of the dohyo. Of course this is just a practice ring, but I would have thought that learning how to use the tawara to your advantage, and to be able to do the tawara two-step, were essential things for a rikishi to learn and practice.

Yes, I can't speak for the video that Otokonoyama posted, but Miyagino definitely has a real dohyo with tawara at the moment. You can see the current setup from a couple of videos I shot a few days before the Hatsu 2020 basho. We were a little surprised at how close the walls are to the dohyo in a couple of places, but I'm not being critical. I have another video that shows Ishiura knocking a guy in practice against the wall hard enough that a cup fell out of the shrine mounted on the wall above.

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9 minutes ago, Getayukata said:

There are certainly rice bales in these last two videos, but I would be concerned about how small the room is. Anyone flying off this dohyo is going to slam straight into the walls!

Indeed, you are an astute observer, Getayukata. I have some shots of some of the rikishi putting the shrine back in order, but you can see that a cup falls from the shrine mounted on the wall above the dohyo. I have to assume that this particular Kami is used to such activities!

 

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1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

Seeing that ^ puts me a little in awe of Hakuho's judgement and coaching skills. I mean, how did he see the potential in a diminutive, baby-faced wannabe he could easily throw right across the heya with one hand?

Also kind of reminded me of what happened just after Gimli told Aragorn, "You'll have to toss me."

Indeed, but I'm sure you've seen photos of Hakuho when he entered at age 14 or 15. He did not look like a future Yokozuna!

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14 minutes ago, Getayukata said:

The thing that I noticed immediately, was that there were no rice bales at the edge of the dohyo. Of course this is just a practice ring, but I would have thought that learning how to use the tawara to your advantage, and to be able to do the tawara two-step, were essential things for a rikishi to learn and practice.

Merely going by photos on this site and on heya social media, they have tawara at their home base (in at least some cases, the tarawa is constructed by yobidashi); they even have rice bales when they go in the road for basho outside Tokyo.  So, is this a non-heya site in the photo?

(As a snarky aside: None of the practice dohyo are a couple of feet above the floor, either, but supposedly "rikishi learn how to fall off the dohyo without getting injured."  Do they go visit loading docks or airborn training sites?:-S

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6 minutes ago, Kaminariyuki said:

Indeed, but I'm sure you've seen photos of Hakuho when he entered at age 14 or 15. He did not look like a future Yokozuna!

I have indeed seen them, but looking like that at 15 is not the same as looking like that when you're 21. Hak was full size and almost Yokozuna by the time he was as old as Enho is there.

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