Bbbut

Quick Question on Jonidan Numbers

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What determines the number of rikishi in the Jonidan division?

After a look through a couple on banzukes, I could not recognize a clear pattern. The size of the league is somehow linked to the overall number of rikishi but how?

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8 minutes ago, Bbbut said:

What determines the number of rikishi in the Jonidan division?

I think it is directly related to keeping a relatively small Jonokuchi division.

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Posted (edited)

There is no pattern, it’s just how many jonokuchi they choose to promote each tournament. It’s not too uncommon for a new wrestler to get a close makekoshi and still get promoted within jonokuchi, but I don’t know how common it is in terms of moving up to jonidan that way. I think it has happened, I just don’t have time to research right now. It seems they like to keep jonokuchi for the new guys, the helpless guys, or the occasional broken guy that has to work back up.

Edited by Churaumi
Left out important words.

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I've wondered about this, too.  For some it seems like upper Jk is just a minor league for lower Jd.

Example: Adachi's first 10 basho starting Nagoya 2002

Jk46  3-4;  Jk32 3-4;  Jk23 3-4;  Jk17 2-5;  Jk18 3-4;  Jd118 3-4;  Jk3 3-4;  Jk12 5-2;  Jd88 3-4;  Jk3 3-4

So, consistently losing non-catastrophically pushes you inexorably up Jonokuchi, until a kachi-koshi breaks you through to Jonidan.

Adachi is still active, having reached Sandanme in four non-consecutive basho, and falling to Jk 7 times.

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The Natsu Jonokuchi banzuke tends to be entirely new recruits, those with no wins in lower Jonidan or Jonokuchi, and maybe a few 1-win Jonokuchi rikishi.  When there are fewer recruits most other basho they tend to have things so that a 3-4 in Jonokuchi moves you near the top of the division and a 3-4 in the bottom of Jonidan leaves you pretty much where you are but not promoted.  Based on having to place people rationally according to records and previous ranks, that leaves some sort of nebulous space where the border is going to be split based on how exactly they try to reconcile all the needed placements.  But that's just how things are now, and it might have changed since I last looked at it.  There was a time where Jonokuchi was so big during Natsu that a bare KK was not sufficient to get into Jonidan if you didn't do well in Maezumo.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

So, consistently losing non-catastrophically pushes you inexorably up Jonokuchi, until a kachi-koshi breaks you through to Jonidan.

You don't even need a kachi-koshi to get promoted to jonidan  - just from 2000 on 231 cases with 3 wins: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=jk&form1_wins=3&form1_year=2000-2019&form2_rank=jd

and 64 with just 2 wins http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=jk&form1_wins=2&form1_year=2000-2019&form2_rank=jd

and 8 with just 1 win http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=jk&form1_wins=1&form1_year=2000-2019&form2_rank=jd

with 0 wins, the last of 12 cases with much less bouts was back in 1972 http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&form1_rank=jk&form1_wins=0&form2_rank=jd

Edited by Akinomaki
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