Nagoya 2019 Discussion (here be spoilers)

[robnplunder 975]

44 minutes ago, Asojima said:

they have recently had a change in shisho and training philosophy. It may not be what they are taking, but what they are receiving.

That shouldn't make them invincible.   And if that is the case, every rikishi (especially, in their heya) would be adopt the same shisho and training philosophy.   Perhaps, they are putting a lot of spinach into their chanko.    Pardon my skepticism but the twins are defying the odd when it comes to sudden turnaround.

Enho is probably taking kryptonite.  That guys amazing, and fun to watch.

Edited July 9, 2019 by robnplunder

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Enho yusho. You heard it here first and last.

[robnplunder 975]

Abi clearly had a decisive plan against Shodai, capitalizing on Shodai's head high Tachihai.   Nice execution by Abi.   

 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

Enho yusho. You heard it here first and last.

As much as I would like to join that bandwagon (his 3-0 start is impressive), Enho looked as though he aggravated his right shoulder injury in his win over Kotoyuki.  He may struggle with that injury going forward. All that to say, a yusho may not be in the cards this time around.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

7 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

As much as I would like to join that bandwagon (his 3-0 start is impressive), Enho looked as though he aggravated his right shoulder injury in his win over Kotoyuki.  He may struggle with that injury going forward. All that to say, a yusho may not be in the cards this time around.

Boo. 

[Amamaniac 2,079]

Fans finally got to see the bout that could have and should have, but didn't happen in May: Asanoyama versus Kakuryu.  The Summer Tourney cup winner, Asanoyama, failed to defeat the Yokozuna, despite the latter's back issues.  To a certain extent, his loss calls into question the value of his championship in May (i.e., was he really the best sekitori in the Top Division?).  If the two men had actually met two months ago, would Asanoyama have walked away with the Emperor's Cup?  

Excuse my penchant for speculation.  

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Just now, Amamaniac said:

Fans finally got to see the bout that could have and should have, but didn't happen in May: Asanoyama versus Kakuryu.  The Summer Tourney cup winner, Asanoyama, failed to defeat the Yokozuna, despite the latter's back issues.  To a certain extent, his loss calls into question the value of his championship in May (i.e., was he really the best sekitori in the Top Division?).  If the two men had actually met two months ago, would Asanoyama have walked away with the Emperor's Cup?  

Excuse my penchant for speculation.  

The yusho has never really been about settling the question of who is best in the division. That’s impossible until everyone fights an identical schedule and gives us a fair test (or as fair is possible to get). What the yusho tells us is who is best among their peers at any given moment. In other words, Asanoyama was better than the guys around him on the banzuke than Kakuryu was against the guys around him on the banzuke. That’s one reason why a sanyaku yusho is so much more valued – a winning K/S/O/Y has proven himself stronger than the strongest, not merely stronger than his peers, which is what a mid-ranking hiramaku yusho winner has done.

At least, this is how I’ve always explained and justified it to people who question the whole point of it when they don’t fight everyone in the division.

[Morty 1,493]

3 hours ago, robnplunder said:

That shouldn't make them invincible.   And if that is the case, every rikishi (especially, in their heya) would be adopt the same shisho and training philosophy.   Perhaps, they are putting a lot of spinach into their chanko.    Pardon my skepticism but the twins are defying the odd when it comes to sudden turnaround.

Enho is probably taking kryptonite.  That guys amazing, and fun to watch.

Back in the days before PEDs athletes used to go on streaks of good form where they would just perform well for a while. It happened so often in baseball it got given a name - a streak. Winning gets to be a habit and you are more likely to win when you are both skilled AND confident, and you get confident once you start winning. Cheating is not the only excuse for good performance, sometimes athletes just have a good run for a while.

[Rocks 1,808]

5 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Kidding aside, for those not keeping track, the Takano twins record starting from the last basho is incredible - 24-3 as of today.  Their combined preceding basho record was 14-16.  Anyone has inside info or thoughts on this incredible turnaround in 6 weeks?   This type of sudden turnaround simply does not happen in martial arts sports.

I can't tell if it's they are stronger or better technique. I think the former. In any case they are better at arresting their opponents momentum. They were always good if they could resist being moved around long enough to grab their opponent. They've gotten better at that. 

[Rocks 1,808]

5 hours ago, Otokonoyama said:

Meanwhile, Ikioi is really struggling.

For no discernible reason. His legs look fine. His balance is still bad though.

[Rocks 1,808]

Kaisei is still struggling with that arm. Tochiozan looks hurt too, maybe his back. He is moving into his crouch even slower than usual.  Something is up with Tamawashi too. He is never good against Mitkakeumi but last night he looked especially pathetic. 

Ryuden is kinda scary. He basically used Endo's technique to beat Tochinoshin.  Lots of guys try this. See someone win against a certain guy and try to copy that. But it's a tough thing when the technique is not something you know. Ryuden did it. Very impressive even if Tochinoshin is clearly on the early train to kyujoville. 

[Koorifuu 939]

Has anyone ever thought that Myogiryu might have some mildly bad brain damage? He used to be the closest prospect to Ozeki we had a bunch of years ago, then he took *that* hit. His technique is still there, but that amazing deftness has mostly deserted him. He made his climb up by being extremely precise on which milimeter he moved into, with every milimeter of his body but nowadays he stumbles around more often than not.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Koorifuu

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Okay, caught up. Not too much drama lower down the banzuke, other than a good win for Enho again after a couple of false starts. In the middle I was impressed with how Tomokaze played Shohozan at his own game and tsukied him out with quick hands. He’s 3-0 at M7. Great start.

Ryuden could not have asked for a better start to life in the sanyaku. It’s very early days but he must be feeling confident about his chances of KK. Abi isn’t doing quite so well but did a number on Shodai today, who did well not to be decapitated. 

Didn’t catch why Takayasu had to face another torinaoshi – shinitai? – but at least he won the rematch so no harm done. 

Hakuho and Hokutofuji was a lot of fun, though it didn’t end in the most dignified way for the latter. Hakuho even seemed to dry hump him in the replay, just to rub it in.

Oh, and Giku-san is still perfect too. :)

Edited July 9, 2019 by Eikokurai

[Amamaniac 2,079]

19 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Didn’t catch why Takayasu had to face another torinaoshi – shinitai? – but at least he won the rematch so no harm done. 

Hiro Morita's commentary suggested the judges determined that both Takayasu and Endo went out at the same time.  Watching the slow motion replay, it looked as if Endo's right ankle dropped down inside the ring before he and/or Takayasu went out.  Takayasu had won the initial bout IMHO, but as you say "no harm done" since he was able to win the rematch.

[nelimw 80]

Any hype for Tomokaze? He's been looking good at the start. 

Also, ochinoshin looks very vulnerable! With arms as strong and long as his, would it help him to use a throat push to help create separation when someone grabs the front of his belt? He has to do something to stop getting beat the same way. 

[Eikokurai 3,437]

16 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Hiro Morita's commentary suggested the judges determined that both Takayasu and Endo went out at the same time.  Watching the slow motion replay, it looked as if Endo's right ankle dropped down inside the ring before he and/or Takayasu went out.  Takayasu had won the initial bout IMHO, but as you say "no harm done" since he was able to win the rematch.

Not just his ankle. Endo was completely on his arse before any part of Takayasu got close to the clay or the ringside matting. Very strange call.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

1 hour ago, Rocks said:

For no discernible reason. His legs look fine. His balance is still bad though.

No deashi. After the tachiai his legs just don't move forward with his body. Suspect the previous injury is still a factor.

[code_number3 698]

1 hour ago, nelimw said:

Also, ochinoshin looks very vulnerable! 

Are Tochinoshin’s aites watched Chris Gould’s video?

 

I saw Tochinoshin was beaten that way in day 1 and 3

 

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2019 by code_number3

[Churaumi 743]

Tochinoshin just looks off this basho. Don’t know if he’s hurt, or if he’s still fighting that hangover from Georgia. He does seem to push his body really hard, and it does catch up to him. Could just be that. Either way, he’s kind of hard to watch so far this basho.

[Jakusotsu 5,904]

Whether or not the change of heya made the twins "invincible" is still up for debating, but apparently Takagenji is starting to show some respect to his opponents. Today he even lent Kotoeko a hand to climb the dohyo. If it took Chiganoura to teach him that, it's telling much about Takanohana as a person IMO.

Now let's wait for his first loss. If he does a proper bow after that, I might even warm up to the guy.

Edited July 9, 2019 by Jakusotsu

[robnplunder 975]

3 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Whether or not the change of heya made the twins "invincible" is still up for debating, but apparently Takagenji is starting to show some respect to his opponents. Today he even lent Kotoeko a hand to climb the dohyo. If it took Chiganoura to teach him that, it's telling much about Takanohana as a person IMO.

Now let's wait for his first loss. If he does a proper bow after that, I might even warm up to the guy.

Ah, you noticed that, too?  That was a mild surprise to me.   It may just be a one off thing.  We will see.  

[Sumo_da 34]

I congratulate Ryuden on his wins, but I can't help but find his sumo very unappealing. The way he clings to the belt and just doesn't let go, coupled with his non-existent character. He's a fighter and his endurance is mind-boggling but it's simply not the sumo I enjoy... Atm he's one of the rikishi I can't warm up to but that may change. I really disliked Shodai before and now I actually root for the guy.    

[Kaninoyama 1,738]

16 hours ago, robnplunder said:

At this rate, he may have to pick up golf .    

Or better yet, caddying. 

[Kaninoyama 1,738]

1 hour ago, Sumo_da said:

I congratulate Ryuden on his wins, but I can't help but find his sumo very unappealing. The way he clings to the belt and just doesn't let go, coupled with his non-existent character. He's a fighter and his endurance is mind-boggling but it's simply not the sumo I enjoy... Atm he's one of the rikishi I can't warm up to but that may change. I really disliked Shodai before and now I actually root for the guy.    

Not sure what you mean by character (lack of personality?), but in interviews outside the dohyo, both Ryuden and Shodai come off as two of the friendliest, most likable characters in sumo.

Ryuden also battled back from a serious injury, falling from Juryo all the way down to Jonokuchi, taking four years to regain his sekitori status. I find it it very easy to root for him. 

Edited July 9, 2019 by Kaninoyama

[Ender Wiggin 43]

10 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Hiro Morita's commentary suggested the judges determined that both Takayasu and Endo went out at the same time.  Watching the slow motion replay, it looked as if Endo's right ankle dropped down inside the ring before he and/or Takayasu went out.  Takayasu had won the initial bout IMHO, but as you say "no harm done" since he was able to win the rematch.

There might be some harm done here. He has essentially fought 5 matches while most everyone else has only fought 3. Plus his bouts tend to last longer than the others. Hopefully there are no more torinaoshi for him this basho.