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Nagoya 2019 Discussion (here be spoilers)

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

I have just noticed that on his short career as a joi maegashira, he took 5 kinboshi - spread from all 4 recent yokozuna.

4 of them were on consecutive basho. Between Nagoya 2017 and Hatsu 2018, he conquered the scalps of (respectively) Kakuryu, Harumafuji, Kisenosato and finally Hakuho.

I wonder which rikishi has the best winning percentage against Yokozuna as a Maegashira. Hokutofuji is currently at 40% if we include the fusen (6 of 15). Excluding the fusen (both as a win and from the total), he’s won approx. 35% of bouts where he’s actually faced a Yokozuna (5 of 14). 

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&shikona1=Hokutofuji&rank1=M&rank2=Y

Edited by Eikokurai

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Rocks said:

 Hak should beat Giku easily but he took an awful long time to beat Myogiryu considering Myogiryu was never in a good position once during the match. 

If Hakuho can win quickly,  fine. It it takes him longer to do that (even quite a bit longer), that's okay with him, too. In this case, it was only a matter of time until he defeated Myogiryu. I don't understand why people complain that he doesn't finish off his opponents sooner. The object is not to win quickly. It's to win--period.  And as far as I know, Hakuho is far better at doing that than anyone else around.

Edited by sekitori
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3 minutes ago, sekitori said:

If Hakuho can win quickly,  fine. It it takes him longer to do that (even quite a bit longer), that's okay with him, too. In this case, it was only a matter of time until he defeated Myogiryu. I don't understand why people complain that he doesn't finish off his opponents sooner. The object of sumo is not to win quickly. It's to win--period.  And as far as I know, Hakuho is far better at doing that than anyone else around.

Who's complaining? The point of my post was to suggest Hakuho is not as much a sure thing as he normally is. Not to suggest he will surely lose. Hakuho is far better at anyone else around, but he's definitely slightly less better at doing that this basho than he has been the last couple he has competed in.

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49 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

I wonder which rikishi has the best winning percentage against Yokozuna as a Maegashira. Hokutofuji is currently at 40% if we include the fusen (6 of 15). Excluding the fusen (both as a win and from the total), he’s won approx. 35% of bouts where he’s actually faced a Yokozuna (5 of 14). 

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&shikona1=Hokutofuji&rank1=M&rank2=Y

Jokoryu and Onosho 1-0 as maegashira against Yokozuna. The former probably isn't getting any more chances either.  Tomokaze has only had one bout against a Yokozuna period and has a kinboshi.  There's a few others that are 1-0 as maegashira against Yokozuna, as seen here: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&amp;group_by=rikishi1&amp;g_op=<=&amp;having=1&amp;rank1=m&amp;rank2=y&amp;gsort_by=record

You can up the ante and look for 2-0 rikishi as well, and you'll find Yokozuna Sadanoyama and a few others.  No one at 3-0 or 4-0 and I didn't look any higher.

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3 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Jokoryu and Onosho 1-0 as maegashira against Yokozuna. The former probably isn't getting any more chances either.  Tomokaze has only had one bout against a Yokozuna period and has a kinboshi.  There's a few others that are 1-0 as maegashira against Yokozuna, as seen here: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&amp;group_by=rikishi1&amp;g_op=<=&amp;having=1&amp;rank1=m&amp;rank2=y&amp;gsort_by=record

You can up the ante and look for 2-0 rikishi as well, and you'll find Yokozuna Sadanoyama and a few others.  No one at 3-0 or 4-0 and I didn't look any higher.

Okay, I supposed I asked for that! Haha. Perhaps I should have set a minimum number of bouts.

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Mitakeumi was working on being a sanyuku member for 16 straight basho in a row.   Yesterday's win clinched it.   But of the 16 basho, he was "Ozeki" like only in one basho, yusho one at that.   I have been tracking his career since his short hair days and no matter how much I like him, he is just not at Ozeki level.  His Achilles heel seems to be his inconsistency, especially, against the ones he should beat.   I question his stamina also given his tendency to slow down in 2nd half of basho (don't say he is fighting more Sanyuku opponents in the 2nd half.  The record shows that does not explain his 2nd half woes).

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11 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Okay, I supposed I asked for that! Haha. Perhaps I should have set a minimum number of bouts.

Minimum 10 bouts: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&amp;group_by=rikishi1&amp;having=10&amp;rank1=m&amp;rank2=y&amp;gsort_by=record

Looks like it's 46th Yokozuna Asashio, 7-3 against Yokozuna as a maegashira, all kinboshi.

 

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10 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

But of the 16 basho, he was "Ozeki" like only in one basho, yusho one at that. 

If he had been promoted to Ozeki immediately upon reaching sanyaku, he'd still be Ozeki, so I'd say he's been very Ozeki-like.  If you want an Ozeki to compare him with, there's Goeido, especially right after his promotion.  Yes, he's only had one basho where he's hit double digits so far (though he has a chance still this basho), but that's only necessary for promotion; a large number of Ozeki never have another Ozeki run in their career, so it basically comes down to just hitting a fluke run of good enough results.  I think at this point he'll get a promotion fairly easily if he comes anywhere close just like Goeido did.  But he might just end up the next Wakanosato.

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2 hours ago, Gurowake said:

If he had been promoted to Ozeki immediately upon reaching sanyaku, he'd still be Ozeki, so I'd say he's been very Ozeki-like.  If you want an Ozeki to compare him with, there's Goeido, especially right after his promotion.  Yes, he's only had one basho where he's hit double digits so far (though he has a chance still this basho), but that's only necessary for promotion; a large number of Ozeki never have another Ozeki run in their career, so it basically comes down to just hitting a fluke run of good enough results.  I think at this point he'll get a promotion fairly easily if he comes anywhere close just like Goeido did.  But he might just end up the next Wakanosato.

Those two compare well.   I.e, Mitakeumi would have been "Goeido-like."  ;-)

 

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Hoshoryu lost to go 3-4. That's the first time he's lost when facing make-koshi. He was previously 6-0 in such situations.

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4 minutes ago, Sakura said:

Hoshoryu lost to go 3-4. That's the first time he's lost when facing make-koshi. He was previously 6-0 in such situations.

Yeah. Tough break.

 

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Ishiura called back to do a proper bow after losing a longish bout with Takanofuji.

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Yesterday I ranted about how underrated Hokutofuji is,  now I'm scared to have jinxed him, he'll probably lose to Terutsuyoshi...

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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

Yesterday I ranted about how underrated Hokutofuji is,  now I'm scared to have jinxed him, he'll probably lose to Terutsuyoshi...

Hokutofuji is no good.  His best qualities are his vow, nothing else.   There, I unjinxed your jinx.   All good :-).

Tamaki is no slouchy at high Makushita level but am surprised he beat the Mongolian hopeful.   Hoshoryu needs to eat more chanko and fill out his 185 cm frame.    Juryo can wait.

Edited by robnplunder
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Another exciting win by Enho .. both his feet were air born to push Myogiryu out.   I wonder if Enho will go kyujo now he got his KK.   

That was too easy for Tomokaze.  I look forward to his next basho where he will be facing all the sanyukus, a true test.

 

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1 hour ago, robnplunder said:

Hokutofuji is no good.  His best qualities are his vow, nothing else.   There, I unjinxed your jinx.   All good :-).

Tamaki is no slouchy at high Makushita level but am surprised he beat the Mongolian hopeful.   Hoshoryu needs to eat more chanko and fill out his 185 cm frame.    Juryo can wait.

Thanks for the unjinx aha ;-)

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Posted (edited)

As far as I can tell, this is the first basho since May 1959 that two M16s have reached double-digits, but of course in those days the division was much bigger so M16 was quite a way from the bottom.

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=1&form1_rank=M16&form1_wins=10-15

When I get a moment I'll look into the number of times the two bottom-ranked guys have done it, including lower than M16.

Edited by Eikokurai

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18 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

Thanks for the unjinx aha ;-)

At the expense of Terutsuyoshi who should be getting a sansho and should be more than happy with this basho  ...

Meanwhile, Hoktutofuji should return to sanyuku rank and also be happy with this basho.

Bad Mitakeumi showed up today and Kak dispatched him with ease.  I hope Kak beats Hak for the yusho and give him the Hak push down at the end of the match.   

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Posted (edited)

Kotoshogiku!

Tomorrow, Kakuryu will face Hakuho in a day-15 yusho decider for the first time since Nagoya 2015 (Kakuryu 12-2, Hakuho 13-1). But, it will be the first time Kakuryu has gone in to such a bout in the lead and as the senior Yokozuna. 

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query_bout.aspx?show_form=0&day=15&shikona1=Kakuryu&rank1=Y&shikona2=Hakuho&rank2=Y

It’s interesting how few senshuraku bouts there have been between these two, given how long they’ve been contemporaries at the rank (32 basho). I suppose injuries and the presence of Harumafuji played a big part there.

Edited by Eikokurai

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Wow, shocked Hakuho lost but not totally out of the blue. Some very good sumo tonight but some very poor effort from some. 

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I had a gut feel that Kotoshogiku will surprise Hak.   Awesome.  Kak should finish Hak tomorrow ... and make sure give him the old Hak pushdown.  (Applauding...)

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