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Nagoya 2019 Discussion (here be spoilers)

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6 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Yubinhaad must feel robbed. They have just denied us the 13th instance of kotehineri in Makuuchi by calling Nishikigi's win kotenage.


I'm happy enough with Tomokaze winning the 13th Day 13 kinboshi (although the first one was on the senshuraku of that 13-day basho).

In addition, it's the 15th kinboshi won by a rikishi ranked at Maegashira 7, in the second basho of the Reiwa era. The last such kinboshi was won by Itai just over three decades ago in the second basho of the Heisei era, also on Day 13.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

Tomokaze defeated a yokozuna having never previously faced a sanyaku opponent. That can't have happened too often.

Well, Konishiki comes to mind: http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_basho.aspx?r=1287&b=198409

First time ever against sanyaku on day 11 he goes: Y win, O win, S win, Y win, O loss (and therefore loses the yusho...)

 

Edited by Bbbut
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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, robnplunder said:

3) Takagenji's sudden fall

This was a surprising turn of events.  There was some speculation in this thread that he may be injured.  Well, today there was some evidence that he is indeed dealing with injuries.  If I am not mistaken, Day 13 was the first time this tournament that he stepped on the dohyo with taped ankles.  Given that he doesn't show any signs of being in pain (as we have seen other sekitori display, e.g., Ikioi), his injuries are not chronic, but may be affecting his performance.

Now Enho, on the other hand, is fighting through his injury-related pain, and I would say that his performance is still quite amazing, despite his current losing streak...

Edited by Amamaniac

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Many of the lower division championships are decided in advance of the final day.  We learned today (day 13) that former Maegashira 15 sekitori, Chiyooo, got his seventh white star victory, and became the only Makushita rikishi with a perfect record.  So much for Terunofuji's hopes of taking the championship in his second (?) debut in that division.

Two questions come to mind: (1) can his downward fall into the makushita division be seen as a "second debut"?  Yeah, ... no.

(2) on his initial rise through the ranks (i.e., Makushita), Terunofuji went under the shikona Wakamisho.

So technically speaking, this tournament is "Terunofuji"'s makushita debut!

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Terinofuji looking way better then when he started this journey back. Dominating in the couple matches i have seen. Lots of fun matches today. Terutsuyoshi doing great sumo and good tachia for smaller guy. We have a yusho race, but Hakahou looks to have the easier path. I hope comes down to senshu..sensira...ah...last day :)

 

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It kind of irks me that Kakuryu now has a good shot at losing this after looking better than everyone else for 12 days straight, but that's how it is in life and sports.

Way to go Tomokaze and Terutsuyoshi!

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7 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Oh, my, oh, my.  It is looking good for Terutsuyoshi.   Hak or Kak will have to face each other, one of them ending up with 2 losses.  Terutsuyoshi needs one more win for jun-yusho, and two more to .... wow!   Just wow!

I would not bet both of them will only have 1 loss Day 15.  Kakuryu has had a tendency to collapse late in the basho lately. He has had his best basho  so far in a while but he's facing the wrong guy to get back on track with wins tonight, Mitakeumi who looked very good last night. Hak should beat Giku easily but he took an awful long time to beat Myogiryu considering Myogiryu was never in a good position once during the match. 

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32 minutes ago, Catalin B said:

It kind of irks me that Kakuryu now has a good shot at losing this after looking better than everyone else for 12 days straight, but that's how it is in life and sports

In truth he's performed no better than a yokuzuna should against such a depleted banzuke. If he doesn't win out from here he can't really complain, unless something unfair occurs.

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Posted (edited)

Who will be Terutsuyoshi's opponent on day 15? Tomokaze? Mitakeumi? Abi? One of the "maybe 7-7" high maegashira?

Edited by serge_gva

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22 minutes ago, serge_gva said:

Who will be Terutsuyoshi's opponent on day 15? Tomokaze? Mitakeumi? Abi? One of the "maybe 7-7" high maegashira?

Since they've been avoiding that matchup so far, it should be Tomokaze.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Rocks said:

I would not bet both of them will only have 1 loss Day 15.  Kakuryu has had a tendency to collapse late in the basho lately. He has had his best basho  so far in a while but he's facing the wrong guy to get back on track with wins tonight, Mitakeumi who looked very good last night. 

Mitakeumi's record against Kak is just about even.  A win tonight can make it all square.  The problem with Mitakeumi is I never know which one will show up, the Ozeki hopeful or a weak sanyuku losing to the likes of <fill in the name of any mid-Maegishira > .  If the good  Mitakeumi shows up, Kak is in trouble.   If not, we will have an exciting showdown between Kak and Hak.

Edited by robnplunder

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1 hour ago, lackmaker said:

In truth he's performed no better than a yokuzuna should against such a depleted banzuke. If he doesn't win out from here he can't really complain, unless something unfair occurs.

Wait.  "Unfair" things occur in sumo.  Perish the thought. ;-)

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24 minutes ago, robnplunder said:

If the good  Mitakeumi shows up, Kak is in trouble.   If not, we will have an exciting showdown between Kak and Hak.

Whether or not Mitakeumi beats Kakuryu or Kotoshogiku beats Hakuho tonight, we will still have an exciting showdown!  The final "official" bout of the tournament will decide how this tournament will end.  There are potentially two scenarios:

1) the final bout decides the championship outright (i.e., the Yokozuna with a 13-1 record wins that bout against the other Yokozuna with a 13-1 or 12-2 record)

2) the final bout decides if there will be a playoff bout (i.e., the Yokozuna with a 12-2 record wins that bout against the Yokozuna with a 13-1 record or the winner of a 12-2 v 12-2 matchup) – even more exciting is the potential for a two-way or three-way playoff with Terutsuyoshi involved.  But Terutsuyoshi will have to win his last two bouts if there is to be any hope of this potentiality.

I have my fingers crossed for a three-way playoff for the Makuuchi yusho.  I just would love to be able to say I witnessed someone at the bottom of the banzuke fighting two men at the top of the banzuke for the championship.  And just imagine if Terutsuyoshi were to win the playoff!  The sumo world would go crazy!!!!!  (Zabutonflying...)

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Posted (edited)

I usually watch the stream in japanese, so as I was watching Kintamayama's video which has the english audio I noticed how surprised the commentator was when Hokutofuji won today. The reason why I'm commenting on this is because it's not the first time I see the commentators on the english side treat Hokutofuji as he was just average.

A different commentator was very surprised when Hokutofuji pushed Tochiozan out with just one hand (I think it was last basho ?) saying that Tochiozan was terribly injured to lose like this as he is 'at least twice the rikishi Hokutofuji is'. Yes Tochiozan is injured and past his prime, yes he was pretty darn good during his prime but that's just insulting to Hokutofuji.

Tochiozan has much more sanyaku experience that's true, Hokutofuji only made it once as for now but he would have made it more often if not for some banzuke bad luck and had to come back from a leg injury. Yet he has 5 kinboshi already and is just starting to hit his prime. Tochiozan and Ichinojo are great but Hokutofuji is not that average. He is having a great basho and is improving a lot, I wish they'd stop sleeping on him like this.

Edited by Rainoyama
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2 hours ago, Catalin B said:

It kind of irks me that Kakuryu now has a good shot at losing this after looking better than everyone else for 12 days straight, but that's how it is in life and sports.

Way to go Tomokaze and Terutsuyoshi!

Its all still in Kakuryu's hands though. Regardless of tomorrow's results he'll be guaranteed at least a play-off if he beats Hakuho on day 15.

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Posted (edited)
38 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

I usually watch the stream in japanese, so as I was watching Kintamayama's video which has the english audio I noticed how surprised the commentator was when Hokutofuji won today. The reason why I'm commenting on this is because it's not the first time I see the commentators on the english side treat Hokutofuji as he was just average.

I think you're missing the context. It had become a belt battle, which is not oshizumo specialist Hokutofuji's strong point, and Ichinojo had a left hand uwate on Hokutofuji's mawashi, which is usually a win condition for the Mongolith (cba to go back to find who coined that, but I like it!). The commentator was surprised that Hokutofuji won under those circumstances, as was I - pleasantly I might add. Being able to handle yotsuzumo when necessary is probably a prerequisite for Hokutofuji making it to ozeki.

Edited by RabidJohn
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53 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

I usually watch the stream in japanese, so as I was watching Kintamayama's video which has the english audio I noticed how surprised the commentator was when Hokutofuji won today. The reason why I'm commenting on this is because it's not the first time I see the commentators on the english side treat Hokutofuji as he was just average.

A different commentator was very surprised when Hokutofuji pushed Tochiozan out with just one hand (I think it was last basho ?) saying that Tochiozan was terribly injured to lose like this as he is 'at least twice the rikishi Hokutofuji is'. Yes Tochiozan is injured and past his prime, yes he was pretty darn good during his prime but that's just insulting to Hokutofuji.

Well, they should be aware that Hokutofuji has survived the meat grinder six basho in a row.   He's a legit joi and should be regarded as such.   Most of all, I like his deep vows to his opponent, and the crowd.   (Applauding...)

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39 minutes ago, RabidJohn said:

I think you're missing the context. It had become a belt battle, which is not oshizumo specialist Hokutofuji's strong point, and Ichinojo had a left hand uwate on Hokutofuji's mawashi, which is usually a win condition for the Mongolith (cba to go back to find who coined that, but I like it!). The commentator was surprised that Hokutofuji won under those circumstances, as was I - pleasantly I might add. Being able to handle yotsuzumo when necessary is probably a prerequisite for Hokutofuji making it to ozeki.

I watched the footage again with your comment in mind and I see you point, he actually does sound happy about the win although he immediately blames Ichinojo's body position instead of praising Hokutofuji's effort... But yeah I guess this one wasn't too bad, I just snapped because it reminded me of that comment about Tochiozan from the other time.

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3 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Well, they should be aware that Hokutofuji has survived the meat grinder six basho in a row.   He's a legit joi and should be regarded as such.   Most of all, I like his deep vows to his opponent, and the crowd.   (Applauding...)

His bows are pretty nice and deep too. 

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3 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Well, they should be aware that Hokutofuji has survived the meat grinder six basho in a row.   He's a legit joi and should be regarded as such.   Most of all, I like his deep vows to his opponent, and the crowd.   (Applauding...)

He's another one of those guys who are strong as shit but don't really look like it.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Well, they should be aware that Hokutofuji has survived the meat grinder six basho in a row.   He's a legit joi and should be regarded as such.   Most of all, I like his deep vows to his opponent, and the crowd.   (Applauding...)

“I, Hokutofuji, take thee, unsuspecting aite, to be my victim, to have and to hold by the throat and push thee forward ... “

Edited by Eikokurai
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4 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Well, they should be aware that Hokutofuji has survived the meat grinder six basho in a row.   He's a legit joi and should be regarded as such.   Most of all, I like his deep vows to his opponent, and the crowd.   (Applauding...)

I have just noticed that on his short career as a joi maegashira, he took 5 kinboshi - spread from all 4 recent yokozuna.

4 of them were on consecutive basho. Between Nagoya 2017 and Hatsu 2018, he conquered the scalps of (respectively) Kakuryu, Harumafuji, Kisenosato and finally Hakuho.

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On 18/07/2019 at 04:15, Amamaniac said:

The highlight bout of today (for me) was actually the final bout in the Juryo Division.  It had plenty of drama: (1) a stop in the action where the gyoji struggled to tighten Azumaryu's mawashi, (2) a spectacular effort by Tobizaru – who in my opinion won – after which he lay on the ground blocking the west-side shimpan from joining the monoii, (3) a torinaoshi rematch called by the judges – once again too timid to make a decision, and finally, (4) Tobizaru going in too low, allowing tall Azumaryu to grip the back of his mawashi, and execute a strong uwatedashinage overarm throw out.  

Perhaps someone can find a link to this bout.  It's definitely worth seeing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wBIotskibE        

To see this dramatic and very entertaining bout between Azumaryu and Tobizaru, see 50:05 on video.

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