Nagoya 2019 Discussion (here be spoilers)

[Eikokurai 3,437]

1 hour ago, Otokonoyama said:

You are incorrect. There was a period when rikishi were more lax at tachi-ai and enforcement was weak, but that was not the way it always had been.

https://www.sumofanmag.com/content/Issue_8/Matta-Henka.htm

1984 is “relatively recent” in sumo history. As the rule wasn’t being enforced for the several decades preceding that decree, then it wasn’t much of a “thing”. I’m aware that hands-down has been a rule in principle since sumo was invented pretty much, but enforcement is what I was referring to. They simply didn’t bother with it for pretty much the entire first half of the modern era (and earlier – I’ve seen footage from earlier in the 50s of pretty casual tachiai). It seems to be one of those circular things: it matta’d for a while, then it didn’t matta, and now it mattas again. Maybe there’ll be another 30+ year spell where they are happy to turn a blind eye. 

(Sorry not sorry for the awful punning.) 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Eikokurai

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

Again, incorrect. The modern era dates back to at least 1926 when West and East merged and sumo was united under a single organization. So have at least 30 years of proper tachiai, followed by 30 years of increasing laxness, and another 30-odd years of getting back to basics. Or let's call the modern era start 1909, when tournaments first started to be held indoors. Or it could be 1889, when sumo regulations were finally reformed after the Takasago incident of 1869. So we actually have well over 80 years of proper tachi-ai in the modern era before things fell apart for a spell. Course corrected. It's all good, man.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Otokonoyama

[Eikokurai 3,437]

31 minutes ago, Otokonoyama said:

Again, incorrect. The modern era dates back to at least 1926 when West and East merged and sumo was united under a single organization. So have at least 30 years of proper tachiai, followed by 30 years of increasing laxness, and another 30-odd years of getting back to basics.

“Modern era” is used in English (the Japanese seem to prefer speaking more in terms of imperial reign) and refers as often to the post-1958 reform into six-basho a year as anything else. Not that it matters much to the point at hand. There was a time before the 50s when it mattered, then a time from the 50s to the 80s when it didn’t, then a time from the 80s when it did. It matters little what arbitrary name we give these periods or when the cutoffs fall. We can call them anything we like.

Edit: As indeed your edited post now shows. It’s all very arbitrary! A bit of a silly distraction all told. :)

Edited July 18, 2019 by Eikokurai

[lackmaker 434]

7 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

For Sekiwake only it’s Goeido with 14, who is the only one in the top ten to have done his consecutive streak all at that rank (no Komusubi appearances counted). 

And he continued performing like a sekiwake for most of his ozeki career.

[Rainoyama 1,157]

Kotoyuki's KK interview was pretty sweet, nice and clear speech, he said that he feels great thanks to his recently born kid. He also said his knees are ok and his goal for the last few days is to do sumo like today which is very understandable. First makuuchi kk in two years.

[Jakusotsu 5,897]

Nice demonstration by Toyonoshima why he was Sekiwake and Onosho will probably never be.

[code_number3 698]

Is Enho run out of gas (again)?

Extra: Enho hasn’t had more than 9 wins since his sekitori days. Will he get his 10 sekitori wins this basho?

Edited July 18, 2019 by code_number3

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Do we think Terutsuyoshi has probably bagged himself a prize with his 10th win? I know it’s not his debut, but double-digits tends to get some attention.

[Rainoyama 1,157]

15 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Do we think Terutsuyoshi has probably bagged himself a prize with his 10th win? I know it’s not his debut, but double-digits tends to get some attention.

Surely he'll get the technique prize, one more win should make it a sure thing.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

1 hour ago, code_number3 said:

Is Enho run out of gas (again)?

Extra: Enho hasn’t had more than 9 wins since his sekitori days. Will he get his 10 sekitori wins this basho?

Being the small guy must make each bout more exhausting for poor Enho.  He could well be "running out of gas", as you say, and moreover, whatever injuries he is carrying may be factoring in.  But the real change in his final bouts is that he is fighting higher-ranked opponents, and as in the case of today, more-experienced Top Division opponents like Shohozan.  All of these things will make getting his KK a lot tougher.

I would say that there is little chance of him getting 10 wins this tournament.  I would be elated if he gets 8!

[Amamaniac 2,079]

The highlight bout of today (for me) was actually the final bout in the Juryo Division.  It had plenty of drama: (1) a stop in the action where the gyoji struggled to tighten Azumaryu's mawashi, (2) a spectacular effort by Tobizaru – who in my opinion won – after which he lay on the ground blocking the west-side shimpan from joining the monoii, (3) a torinaoshi rematch called by the judges – once again too timid to make a decision, and finally, (4) Tobizaru going in too low, allowing tall Azumaryu to grip the back of his mawashi, and execute a strong uwatedashinage overarm throw out.  

Perhaps someone can find a link to this bout.  It's definitely worth seeing.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Amamaniac

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

3 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

“Modern era” is used in English (the Japanese seem to prefer speaking more in terms of imperial reign) and refers as often to the post-1958 reform into six-basho a year as anything else. Not that it matters much to the point at hand. There was a time before the 50s when it mattered, then a time from the 50s to the 80s when it didn’t, then a time from the 80s when it did. It matters little what arbitrary name we give these periods or when the cutoffs fall. We can call them anything we like.

Edit: As indeed your edited post now shows. It’s all very arbitrary! A bit of a silly distraction all told. :)

Modern-era is used by both the Japanese and those translating from it to refer to the post-Edo era stuff from Meiji up to the present day. Post-war era is used to refer to what you have mistakenly labeled as "modern era".

[luispereira 383]

kakuryu is kicking! 

[Morty 1,486]

Hak might have won that in the end, but it won't have done his elbows any favours at all

[lackmaker 434]

But it should, quite rightly, have massaged his ego.

[Jakusotsu 5,897]

Strange day today between circus acts (Tokushoryu, Enho, Abi, Chiyotairyu) and marathons (Okinoumi, Takarafuji, Ichinojo, Hakuho).

[Catalin B 13]

That was lovely from Toyonoshima! I hope he stays in makuuchi.

And cool to see Tomokaze pitted against the big boys. Did he just completely lack the chikara today against Ichinojo?

[Rocks 1,807]

5 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Nice demonstration by Toyonoshima why he was Sekiwake and Onosho will probably never be.

Looked like the usual  Onosho match to me. Stop his initial charge and he's pretty much toast. If you don't stop it, or avoid it, you lose.

[ScreechingOwl 343]

3 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Being the small guy must make each bout more exhausting for poor Enho.  He could well be "running out of gas", as you say, and moreover, whatever injuries he is carrying may be factoring in.  But the real change in his final bouts is that he is fighting higher-ranked opponents, and as in the case of today, more-experienced Top Division opponents like Shohozan.  All of these things will make getting his KK a lot tougher.

I would say that there is little chance of him getting 10 wins this tournament.  I would be elated if he gets 8!

Facing the higher-ranked opponents was certainly a major factor in Enho's not getting his kk last basho too. In his day 12 match, Enho was dictating the pace (and position) of his match with Shohozan and was a bit unlucky not to win. But it certainly looked like he got injured when his foot got caught awkwardly under him, and it's hard to foresee him getting a kk now, even if he doesn't go kyujo.

[CT3* 331]

 

Really impressed with Kakuryu's poise and focus this basho. Would love to see him zensho.

[nelimw 80]

Thoughts for the day:

Lol at Tomokaze, he really thought he was going to just belly bump Ichinojo out of the ring?! 

Kakuryu with the susoharai! That was cool, never seen that before. 

Asanoyama has an interesting next two days. If he wins both and can KK, he'll have a fan in me for life. 

[Akinomaki 40,236]

NHK keeps telling that Gagamaru has a bone fracture in the right foot. A simple taping is all he uses for it and he is not limping - but he loses big - and the pain shows in his face after the bout.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

1 hour ago, Akinomaki said:

NHK keeps telling that Gagamaru has a bone fracture in the right foot. A simple taping is all he uses for it and he is not limping - but he loses big - and the pain shows in his face after the bout.

Maybe, just maybe, he'll do something about it once he loses his salary... 

 

[Koorifuu 928]

23 hours ago, dingo said:

A few years ago Kotoshogiku would've finished off Kakuryu from that position. Alas the ex-Ozeki is not the same rikishi he used to be. 

I thought exactly the same on his match against Endo. The latter got away from at least 3 situations where, half a dozen years ago, he'd end up giving a mawashi faceful to someone in the 2nd row. It's amazing how Giku is still upper maegashira quality when he 1) sticks to his brand of sumo while well past his prime 2) is half as effective as he once was while doing it.

[Kotomiyama 169]

Onosho has the strange ability of snatchin defeat from the jaws of victory.