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Akinomaki

New NSK council with Sadaharu Oh

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Jesse (75) was guest at the 5th meeting of the Oh council today in the kokugikan, for the discussion about the internationalization of ozumo. From the pre-former 先々代 Azumazeki-oyakata came the appeal that "Above internationalization, it mustn't be forgotten that it's the kokugi." And the usual about the present generation of rikishi: "The basics are important in sumo. They don't train enough, don't they." About the new Azumazeki: "I think it's hard for him. I want him to gambarize."

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Matsumoto Hakuo: "Sumo is divine ritual. I think that believing in something and to be believed, naturally will make the scandals go away and have it be a fascinating sumo world."

202002060000661-w200_1.jpgo 

The next meeting will be in April

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The female member, Misako Konno was active in today's discussion part about women on the dohyo.

202002060000661-w200_1.jpgo 

One opinion that came up: It's not appropriate to think of that pro and con dispute as a problem of sexism.

The council will continue to think of ways to have the spirit of anti-discrimination in modern society and sumo tradition coexist.

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14 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Jesse (75) was guest at the 5th meeting of the Oh council today in the kokugikan, for the discussion about the internationalization of ozumo. From the pre-former 先々代 Azumazeki-oyakata came the appeal that "Above internationalization, it mustn't be forgotten that it's the kokugi."

The first ever foreign sekitori also told of the high importance he put on being the successor to samurai tradition.

A working group was established to compile into a report the records of the proceedings of all meetings so far, to be presented in autumn (likely only to the NSK top, not to the public). https://hochi.news/articles/20200206-OHT1T50237.html

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Today at a hotel in Tokyo was the 6th meeting of the council to think about the future of sumo, those planned in April and June were canceled due to Corona. 6 of the 8 members were present, baseball's Oh took part remote, kabuki actor Matsumoto Hakuo was absent. The new subject in the talk was of course sumo's future in Corona times, as were the recent scandals (Nakagawa-beya, Abi). The relation between shisho and deshi will be a topic also next time, then including the opinion of the NSK.

The final report will be delayed, next year February is now the plan. The next meeting(s) to replace the 2 canceled ones should happen till the end of October. http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/202008200000635.html

press conference afterwards, with Shibatayama, council head Yamauchi and Hakkaku

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Edited by Akinomaki
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On 20/08/2020 at 13:40, Akinomaki said:

The final report will be delayed, next year February is now the plan. The next meeting(s) to replace the 2 canceled ones should happen till the end of October.

Today in the kokugikan was one of the replacement meetings of the Oh council, the 7th meeting, for about 2 hours, about sumo-beya and the relation between shisho and deshi - one subject there was the close-down of Nakagawa-beya. The NSK explained about scouting and rearing deshi and the hardships of the okamisan and more. 2 meetings are still planned, and the final report to be delivered till March o

7 of the 8 members were present, kabuki actor Matsumoto Hakuo again absent o

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Today was the 8th meeting of the council. They talked about the guidance by the oyakata, especially to foreigners. 2 or 3 more meetings are planned and then the final report will be delivered. o

Hakkaku with council head Yamauchi

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Edited by Akinomaki
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The 9th meeting of the Oh council (AKA: thinking about sumo's future) was on the 23rd. Of the 8 council members, 3 were absent, as usual Matsumoto Hakuo one of them. Talk centered around raising new recruits and the responsibility of the oyakata.

The final report is planned for end of March.

Council head Yamauchi had the press conference with PR top Shibatayama this time

202012230000777-w200_0.jpgo 202012230000777-w200_1.jpgo

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On 25/12/2020 at 10:56, Akinomaki said:

The 9th meeting of the Oh council (AKA: thinking about sumo's future) was on the 23rd. Of the 8 council members, 3 were absent, as usual Matsumoto Hakuo one of them. Talk centered around raising new recruits and the responsibility of the oyakata.

The final report is planned for end of March.

Matsumoto Hakuo as usual and Misako Konno were absent at the 10th meeting of the council today, the next and last is planned for the 19th. Then the observations of the council members will be compiled and the proposal to the NSK is aimed to be finalized. 3 points are in the focus: how to deal with internationalization, how transmit ozumo to the new era and have it flourish and how as a sports organization to consider governance and integrity.

The main report will have 40-50 pages with 400 Japanese characters per page, the individual observations will have about 4 pages.

council head Yamauchi with Shibatayama

origin_1.jpgo 202104030000759-w200_0.jpgo

Edited by Akinomaki
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While the whole report has not been disclosed, Sankei Sports is able to reveal that the report focused on how important oyakata leadership and JSA governance is to helping foreign-born rikishi understand the traditional culture of sumo. It was argued that nothing in the current articles of the JSA indicated the need for the ichidai-toshiyori to exist, if I translated it correctly. 

In my personal opinion, sounds like a way to zap away the ichidai toshiyori from Hakuho - but we have to see how the Kyokai reacts. 

Edited by pricklypomegranate
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21 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

While the whole report has not been disclosed, Sankei Sports is able to reveal that the report focused on how important oyakata leadership and JSA governance is to helping foreign-born rikishi understand the traditional culture of sumo. It was argued that nothing in the current articles of the JSA indicated the need for the ichidai-toshiyori to exist, if I translated it correctly. 

In my personal opinion, sounds like a way to zap away the ichidai toshiyori from Hakuho - but we have to see how the Kyokai reacts. 

This is big news- The gist of it is that the Ichidai toshiyori thing never really existed, and they are recommending it stop. "We are not abolishing anything, since it never existed as a rule," said the guy.

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24 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

This is big news- The gist of it is that the Ichidai toshiyori thing never really existed, and they are recommending it stop. "We are not abolishing anything, since it never existed as a rule," said the guy.

It sounds to my foreigner ears that they are trying to kill this initiative before it is even discussed, or at least sew up a case against Hakuho, which is extremely unfair. He's done some horrible things, but I still think he should have as fair a hearing as possible. Hakkaku's got a good head on his shoulders and I trust him. I think Hakuho deserves the ichidai toshiyori, but if he doesn't get it, can't say I was surprised and I shan't be bringing pitchforks. 

Edited by pricklypomegranate

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8 minutes ago, pricklypomegranate said:

It sounds to my foreigner ears that they are trying to kill this initiative before it is even discussed, or at least sew up a case against Hakuho, which is extremely unfair. He's done some horrible things, but I still think he should have as fair a hearing as possible. Hakkaku's got a good head on his shoulders and I trust him. I think Hakuho deserves the ichidai toshiyori, but if he doesn't get it, can't say I was surprised and I shan't be bringing pitchforks. 

If I learned anything from the past, it looks like a done deal to me. No Japanese dai -Yokozuna in the foreseeable future, so no problem there. 

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On 03/04/2021 at 18:04, Akinomaki said:

the next and last is planned for the 19th. Then the observations of the council members will be compiled and the proposal to the NSK is aimed to be finalized. 3 points are in the focus: how to deal with internationalization, how transmit ozumo to the new era and have it flourish and how as a sports organization to consider governance and integrity.

The main report will have 40-50 pages with 400 Japanese characters per page, the individual observations will have about 4 pages.

The 11th and last meeting today had at last all 8 members present, about 2 years the council was working.

handing over the report to Hakkaku

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press conference afterwards

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Apart from the foreigner and ichidai-toshiyori question, they made a proposal to appoint female external riji. o

Edited by Akinomaki
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On 19/04/2021 at 12:33, Akinomaki said:

The 11th and last meeting today had at last all 8 members present, about 2 years the council was working.

handing over the report to Hakkaku

http://sumo.or.jp/img/kyokai/information/yushikisha20210419.pdf

The report lists up in detail what was reported (all in this thread) about the council meetings.

Part 1 about the foreigners, till page 17

They chose to go not for internationalization, but use the term multi-nationalization, and all those have to get into Japanese culture. Many foreign rikishi adapt, but many show disrespect towards the values of ozumo (including holding a foreign flag at the yusho parade - do we have a list of those cases?).
Looking at the experience of judo and kendo, sumo should go on like before and don't open up to values of foreign cultures, making new rules, a "new sumo": this would do nothing for the development of sumo. It would destroy the distinctive Japanese values of sumo, like those of judo were destroyed by internationalization - detaching sumo from Japanese culture.

Foreign oyakata would not be able to properly transmit sumo tradition to their deshi, so that rule of becoming Japanese to become oyakata should stay forever. The oyakata are the administration of the NSK and thus it is of vital importance to have them all be Japanese.

 

They stress the importance of raising Japanese and not get more foreigners - this would lead to more foreign-born oyakata in the end, and they really dislike that.

----

next comes the  problem of too many injuries - main reason: too heavy, some think not enough keiko, the usual. The report really has not much to offer so far, maybe I read a bit more later.

Edited by Akinomaki
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2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Many foreign rikishi adapt, but many show disrespect towards the values of ozumo (including holding a foreign flag at the yusho parade - do we have a list of those cases?).

Oof.  The Japanese attitude towards nationality strikes again.  I'm a proud dual-national, and neither of my nationalities detracts from the other.  

The rest of that section also makes me sad.  I guess it's unsurprising from a bunch of old guys, but the insistence that naturalised Japanese people aren't even good enough is racist even for Japan.  

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22 minutes ago, Ryoshishokunin said:

Oof.  The Japanese attitude towards nationality strikes again.  I'm a proud dual-national, and neither of my nationalities detracts from the other.  

The rest of that section also makes me sad.  I guess it's unsurprising from a bunch of old guys, but the insistence that naturalised Japanese people aren't even good enough is racist even for Japan.   

That insistence of naturalised Japanese oyakata not fully able to transmit Japanese values is of course not directly expressed in the text, but visible.

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8 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

That insistence of naturalised Japanese oyakata not fully able to transmit Japanese values is of course not directly expressed in the text, but visible.

"The shisho/oyakata are in the position to teach the rikishi 'our country's traditional kokugi'"

To understand everything Japanese they have to be absolutely fully assimilated.

"Should a foreign born oyakata emphasize the multiplicity of his identity and a cosmopolitan view independent from Japanese tradition and spiritual characteristics, it is not ensured that he can teach a rikishi who doesn't fully understand the heart of sumo about 'What is sumo' and 'What is the heart of Japan and sumo' "

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I bet these doofuses couldn't even give a coherent explanation of 'What is the heart of Japan and sumo'. They are just charlatans who abuse the concept of Japanese ethos to protect their standing (i.e wealth) in society. Not much different than tele-vangelists unilaterally evaluating someone's faith. I wonder if they even attend basho and look up to see who is usually filling the isu-seki each day.

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I for one completely understand their desire to preserve the sumo traditions as pure as possible. What I don't understand is scapegoating the foreign-born rikishis for all the ills of the sport and at the same time allowing them to enter the sumo. If becoming a "true" Japanese is only possible by being born there, a logical or consistent thing to do here is to ban foreigners from sumo. Problem solved.

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5 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Foreign oyakata would not be able to properly transmit sumo tradition to their deshi, so that rule of becoming Japanese to become oyakata should stay forever. The oyakata are the administration of the NSK and thus it is of vital importance to have them all be Japanese.

 

They stress the importance of raising Japanese and not get more foreigners - this would lead to more foreign-born oyakata in the end, and they really dislike that.

 

Is this by any chance the same council with moto-Takamiyama on it??

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56 minutes ago, BuBa said:

I for one completely understand their desire to preserve the sumo traditions as pure as possible. What I don't understand is scapegoating the foreign-born rikishis for all the ills of the sport and at the same time allowing them to enter the sumo. If becoming a "true" Japanese is only possible by being born there, a logical or consistent thing to do here is to ban foreigners from sumo. Problem solved.

Honestly, I feel we are one inch away from this. They might not actively write that in the rule book, but we are so close to call it un unwriten rule.
With every hurdle put in to prevent foreigners to come in, I tend to think Shishi might be the last Westerner to enter Ozumo (outside of Mongolians/foreigners raised in Japan like Roga or Hokuseiho). 

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6 minutes ago, sahaven111 said:

Is this by any chance the same council with moto-Takamiyama on it??

as guest once, just look at the top of this page

On 06/02/2020 at 17:03, Akinomaki said:

Jesse (75) was guest at the 5th meeting of the Oh council today in the kokugikan, for the discussion about the internationalization of ozumo. From the pre-former 先々代 Azumazeki-oyakata came the appeal that "Above internationalization, it mustn't be forgotten that it's the kokugi." And the usual about the present generation of rikishi: "The basics are important in sumo. They don't train enough, don't they." About the new Azumazeki: "I think it's hard for him. I want him to gambarize."

He is mentioned in detail in the report

Edited by Akinomaki

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3 hours ago, Oortael said:

Honestly, I feel we are one inch away from this. They might not actively write that in the rule book, but we are so close to call it un unwriten rule.
With every hurdle put in to prevent foreigners to come in, I tend to think Shishi might be the last Westerner to enter Ozumo (outside of Mongolians/foreigners raised in Japan like Roga or Hokuseiho). 

But what actual hurdles have been newly put up? The foreign recruiting gold rush from about 2000 to 2005 filled up nearly all the foreigner slots for the next 10 years, and during that decade a lot of oyakata seemingly just...lost interest...in scouting the international market, and they just haven't bothered to get back into it once slots became available in large numbers again since 2015 or so. Unlike the 1990s edict that killed things off for a while, this downturn appears to have come about organically in a voting-with-their-feet way to me.

And I can't even really blame them...would anyone argue with a straight face that international amateur sumo is in better shape in 2021 than it was in 2005? The governing bodies spent years with factional infighting during the last decade, and the talent depth has arguably gone backwards especially at heavyweight.

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18 hours ago, Asashosakari said:

But what actual hurdles have been newly put up?

I was thinking about the recent (?) 6-months period before a foreigner can officially enter a basho. Are guys like Kirameki and Ryuga really more acclimated to sumo that they can directly enter while Delgebayar or Baltagulov can't (rhetorical question) ? I feel that's the last straw, as we have :
- very few 
international practitioners willing or having the level to enter (but I'll gladly defer to our local experts on this)
- NSK not wanting to any of them (or at least not those raised outside of Japan)
- NSK not caring at all about international fans (I'm not implying they should)

I gonna admit also that when this committee talked about the internationalization of sumo, I wrongly thought it was about the expansion of sumo outside of Japan, as a way to raise NSK income after the pandemic. So, the actual recommendations are a rather big disappointment. But that's on me for having expectations that are clearly not aligned with the decision makers.

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