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Takakeisho injury update

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When Takakeisho returns in September, suppose that he doesn't get his ten wins. Due to prolonged inactivity in competition (in boxing it's called ring rust), that could happen. Would it be disappointing? Absolutely. Would it be a tragedy? Absolutely not. He's still very young and very talented. Barring further injury, it's almost certain that he will again be able to put together another record that will result in promotion to ozeki. I expect him to maintain that rank (and possibly go one step higher) for a very long time. The only thing that can stop him is further severe injury. In sumo, that unfortunately is always a possibility.

 

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34 minutes ago, sekitori said:

When Takakeisho returns in September, suppose that he doesn't get his ten wins. Due to prolonged inactivity in competition (in boxing it's called ring rust), that could happen. Would it be disappointing? Absolutely. Would it be a tragedy? Absolutely not. He's still very young and very talented. Barring further injury, it's almost certain that he will again be able to put together another record that will result in promotion to ozeki. I expect him to maintain that rank (and possibly go one step higher) for a very long time. The only thing that can stop him is further severe injury. In sumo, that unfortunately is always a possibility.

 

When he first mentioned the possibility of going kyujo a bit ago, he explained during the interview that he is young he has plenty of time ahead of him so preserving his knee is what's more important , even if it means starting a run from 0. He said he managed to do it once so feels confident about doing it again .I really think he can and will if it comes to that.

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On 27/06/2019 at 01:15, Eikokurai said:

Well, now I’m confused. I’ve long been led to believe that Daiju is regarded as having the shortest Ozeki spell of the modern era. Presumably whoever decided that must have actually meant fewest total number of basho at the rank, but then it’s inaccurate to say he’s the shortest reigning Ozeki, since every spell is counted as a separate appearance

That's how time at rank is typically counted, yes. Most consecutive tournaments at rank is a somewhat frequently seen trivia stat as well, least consecutive not so much.

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1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

That's how time at rank is typically counted, yes. Most consecutive tournaments at rank is a somewhat frequently seen trivia stat as well, least consecutive not so much.

I think least consecutive is an interesting stat where Ozeki is concerned, just because the rank is more difficult to lose. It doesn’t make much sense for the lower ranks, since there’s naturally more volatility there, but “fewest consecutive basho from Ozeki debut” is something I can see being of interest to a lot of sumo historians. I’m sure in the coming days and weeks we’ll be seeing the odd reference to Takakeisho being only the second ever Ozeki to go down after just two tournaments.

Edited by Eikokurai

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Currently, we have one Ozeki (Tochinoshin) and one Komusubi (Ryuden) who fell far down the banzuke and then worked their way back up to not only sekitori, or even makuuchi, but the yaku ranks. Now we see Takakeisho prepared to sacrifice his hard-earned promotion to avoid aggravating an injury. Hopefully other rikishi will look at this situation and see that short-term pain might be worth it for long-term gain. Takakeisho may just help cause a shift in attitude. 

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On 04/07/2019 at 16:23, Eikokurai said:

Currently, we have one Ozeki (Tochinoshin) and one Komusubi (Ryuden) who fell far down the banzuke and then worked their way back up to not only sekitori, or even makuuchi, but the yaku ranks. Now we see Takakeisho prepared to sacrifice his hard-earned promotion to avoid aggravating an injury. Hopefully other rikishi will look at this situation and see that short-term pain might be worth it for long-term gain. Takakeisho may just help cause a shift in attitude. 

Tochinoshin was a komusubi and fell from there to the mid-makushita ranks. Ryuden's rise was equally if not even more pronounced. He dropped from juryo 12 to as low as jonokuchi 14 and for four consecutive bashos, he won exactly one bout and then went kyujo. The only reason he competed was to not completely fall off the banzuke. The subsequent rise of both rikishis has been amazing. 

Takekeisho's return to the highest ranks won't be nearly as difficult. At best, he will start at sekiwake. At worst, he should begin his comeback at no lower than a rank close to that. 

I agree that these are all instances where the  judgment of the rikishi and his advisors to completely recover from injury before competing again was extremely wise. I have a suggestion that I'm sure would be too radical for those running sumo to consider. Instead of leaving the decision to enter a basho entirely up to the rikishi, his oyakata, and other advisors, I would also suggest examination by several medical professionals as well. If it's their unanimous opinion that a rikishi should not compete because his injury is too severe, their recommendation should at the very least be taken extremely seriously by everyone concerned.  

Edited by sekitori

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I hear there's a good chance of Takakeishou starting to train next week. He didn't show up for keiko this morning at the heya, but his Oyakata did. "He's getting close to being OK.  Hopefully, some time around next week if all goes well he will don a mawashi and may be able to lend his chest.." he said. Takakeishou still hasn't joined the heya lodgings since August 6th so the Oyakata actually hasn't seen him lately ("I saw him three days before we left..") but has heard he is getting better although he still has pains in certain weather conditions . "We won't really know till we  actually see him.. I would like him to don that mawashi and train with the young guys a bit. I can't tell how he is just by watching him lift weights. There is the sumo sense as well. He hasn't gained or lost weight, " said his Oyakata, in one of the most incoherent babbling I've heard of late. "I wonder how the first half of the basho will go... As an oshi specialist, he should be able to ride the wave.." he added. The plan is for Takakeishou to start real training after the banzuke is announced  on August 26th. Then there's the YDC soken on the 31st and the Nishonoseki rengo keiko in the beginning of September. "Of course he intends to take part, so he needs to prepare himself. Less than 4 weeks left till the basho? The guy is a hard worker. It will be OK," summed the Oyakata.

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Takakeishou's camp is worried. He will only start training a day after the banzuke is released as the dohyo at the heya will undergo reconstruction from the 21st and will not be ready till the 27th so on keiko there. At present he is working with weights  and his Oyakata did say he hoped he would start training this week. So , worries.

 

Edited by Kintamayama
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Takakeisho has re-started keiko in the heya on the 25th, shiko, suriashi and finally tachiai check.

20190825s00005000541000p_thum.jpgo

He had continued to do rehab at his old high school Saitama Sakae

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Today again, fundamentals and tachiai with the lower rankers. "No worries about my knee any more. I'm aiming for the yusho. People around me may say that it's impossible, but if I don't aim high, I don''t think I can get those ten wins (needed to return to Ozeki).. " said Takakeishou. "I am much stronger than I was before.. I've done  much more weights training than before. " he added. He showed no signs of favoring his right knee injury, and his Oyakata agreed that he is in better shape than he was before Nagoya. Before last basho, he did all he could to enter the basho but did not in  the end. "For me, losing my rank without entering was difficult to swallow. I hope in 1-2 years time this decision (to go kyujo) would prove to be worth it. For that to happen, all I can do is go all out!" he declared. His Oyakata says there is a good chance he will do real sumo training starting tomorrow. "My condition changes day by day so I don't think I can declare that I will start training on this or that specific day. Still, my feeling is that I  really want to do it!" summed Takakeishou.

Personal view- Right up there with Terunofuji- No way is he even close to his old self. No way.

 

201908270000448-w500_0.jpg

Edited by Kintamayama
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Takakeishou did some sumo today for the first time since his injury. He faced some Makushita rikishi (Takakento and veteran Hungarian Masutouou)  for 12 bouts and won them all. Some fast forward moving and some defensive moves were witnessed. "It looked very good. His first step is good and his legs are moving forward well. It's been a while  and he's looking like this.. I hope by tomorrow or the day after he will be facing the sekitori," said the Oyakata. We may see him facing Takagenji, Takanofuji and Takanoshou soon.

201908280000299-w500_0.jpg

 

Edited by Kintamayama
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Hopefully, he has no "ring rust" in his return.  10 wins will be good.   Yusho?  Impossible.   

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10 hours ago, robnplunder said:

Hopefully, he has no "ring rust" in his return.  10 wins will be good.   Yusho?  Impossible.   

10 wins would be more than good, it would be an amazing achievement. I'm hoping he can do it, but I'm sceptical. 

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同部屋の幕下力士に身振りを交えて助言をする貴景勝(右)(撮影・佐藤礼征)

Just like yesterday Takakeisho trained at his heya with makushita rikishi, he had 14 bouts in total, one more than yesterday and won them all. His injured right knee as well as his uninjured left knee were both tapped today. The reason given in the article is that they are hoping to negate the disconfort of only one leg's movements being restricted by tapping the uninjured leg as well. "We're experimenting all kind of things so I can produce power more easily" explained Takakeisho. Sounds like cheap tricks to me but who knows...

The article also reports that Takakeisho's former anideshi Takanoiwa who retired last september was present to the session "It's been a while" said Takakeisho when seeing him and the two had a friendly chat, a welcomed breather for Takakeisho with all that pre basho pressure constantly on his shoulders.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201908290000559.html

Edited by Rainoyama
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7 hours ago, Rainoyama said:
 

His injured right knee as well as his uninjured left knee were both tapped today. The reason given in the article is that they are hoping to negate the disconfort of only one leg's movements being restricted by tapping the uninjured leg as well. "We're experimenting all kind of things so I can produce power more easily" explained Takakeisho. Sounds like cheap tricks to me but who knows...

 

In other words, they are restricting the use of his good leg so that it feels somewhat like the bad one. In effect. they're trying to make both legs seem equal. That's a novel approach which seems to make no sense. Yet I can understand why they're tryiing it. There is proverb called  "Any port in a storm". It means that in an adverse situation, one looks for any source of relief, however unusual it may seem. 

There is a very slight chance that such  a strange approach to injury might actually be of help. I give credit to Takakeisho and his advisors for trying it.

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1 hour ago, sekitori said:

In other words, they are restricting the use of his good leg so that it feels somewhat like the bad one. In effect. they're trying to make both legs seem equal. That's a novel approach which seems to make no sense. Yet I can understand why they're tryiing it. There is proverb called  "Any port in a storm". It means that in an adverse situation, one looks for any source of relief, however unusual it may seem. 

There is a very slight chance that such  a strange approach to injury might actually be of help. I give credit to Takakeisho and his advisors for trying it.

I have heard of some athletes, in an effort to protect an injured leg part, to put more strain on the uninjured leg. This in turn led to an injury in the previously uninjured leg. Do you think that this approach could help protect the uninjured knee? I have no idea about these things.

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When I read both knees were "tapped" I thought they were drawing off fluid.  Now I understand they were actually "taped".

I don't know whether they put any serious thought into their procedure, but preventative taping is useful to prevent straining of muscles and ligaments.  If they were worried about stress on the other knee, this could be helpful -- certainly wouldn't do any harm.

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Even though I'm no medical doctor, I really think he should sit this one out, maybe November as well. So many have gone this path already, you'd think the Oyakatas would be all over this knee bit. I hope I'm wrong.

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5 minutes ago, Thundersnow said:

Even though I'm no medical doctor, I really think he should sit this one out, maybe November as well. So many have gone this path already, you'd think the Oyakatas would be all over this knee bit. I hope I'm wrong.

He already was demoted to Sekiwake, because he sat out, which was an outstanding move. But scrapping the opportunity of immediate repromotion? He'd boldly go where noone has gone before.

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The tape on his knee is pretty minimal, that's only going to do any good for 5 minutes. It's most psychological.

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5 minutes ago, Benihana said:

He already was demoted to Sekiwake, because he sat out, which was an outstanding move. But scrapping the opportunity of immediate repromotion? He'd boldly go where noone has gone before.

Going where no one has gone before may be unusual, but it could be the best approach for him. The failure to regain his ozeki rank by going kyujo would be disappointing, but if and when he becomes healthy again, he has enough ability to reach ozeki again. His main problem, and it could be a huge one, is that if he does compete, there could be a chance of even worse reinjury. 

His advisors are being very careful with his rehab and considering that other rikishis' injuries have been so poorly handled, that's commendable. The difficulty is now a choice between entering a basho with an injury that hasn't completely healed, hoping it holds up well enough to have him again achieve ozeki rank or sitting it out and starting his quest for ozeki rank all over again with a healthier body. That decision, no matter what it turns out to be, will be a very difficult one to make.

Unfortunately, injury is always a risk in sumo and that's bad enough. But when it happens to an extremely promising and talented young rikishi, that makes things even worse. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, sekitori said:

Going where no one has gone before may be unusual, but it could be the best approach for him. The failure to regain his ozeki rank by going kyujo would be disappointing, but if and when he becomes healthy again, he has enough ability to reach ozeki again. His main problem, and it could be a huge one, is that if he does compete, there could be a chance of even worse reinjury. 

His advisors are being very careful with his rehab and considering that other rikishis' injuries have been so poorly handled, that's commendable. The difficulty is now a choice between entering a basho with an injury that hasn't completely healed, hoping it holds up well enough to have him again achieve ozeki rank or sitting it out and starting his quest for ozeki rank all over again with a healthier body. That decision, no matter what it turns out to be, will be a very difficult one to make.

Unfortunately, injury is always a risk in sumo and that's bad enough. But when it happens to an extremely promising and talented young rikishi, that makes things even worse. 

It's tough to know where the balance lies. One the one hand, we regularly read quotes from oyakata and experienced sekitori saying one must go all out in training, and to not do so risks injury. But to do so year round surely makes burnout much more likely. Frequent honbasho with 15-day schedules for sekitori add to the stress on their bodies. How many other combat athletes fight so often for 15 days in a row? Then add the regional tours, and all the discomforts we see reported. Injuries are probably the norm not the exception. How seriously one is injured and how well one is able to cope with that while still maintaining one's place in the pecking order is a really big part of a rikishi's life.

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It's very difficult to win promotion to ozeki from scratch. Better to go all out to get ten this time if he's in any sort of condition to compete, even if not fully fit.

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