Rainoyama

Takakeisho injury update

Recommended Posts

Interesting to hear a rikishi speak openly about the need to sit out, even at the cost of a demotion (and the shortest Ozeki spell on record). I hope it doesn’t come to that, but the mere fact he’s prepared to do it is refreshing.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Takakeishou has not started any real keiko and has done no sumo yet. He did some shiko and stuff yesterday but that's about it. "I'm training with the intention of entering but I won't be entering if i'm in no condition to enter.. If I do something unreasonable I'm liable to cause irreparable damage to my ligament and my career.." he explained. "At times I feel better, at other times not so much.. It's getting better gradually," he added. There's the Nishonoseki rengo keiko between June 27th-29th but he doesn't know if he will participate. The plan still is to start doing some sumo  a week before the basho at the latest..

Edited by Kintamayama
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way things are looking, he’s not going to be in any sort of condition to perform at the level he needs to secure his kachikoshi. The prospect of him becoming sumo’s shortest-reigning Ozeki is all too real at the moment. Still, he seems to have the right attitude and the self-belief that any loss of rank will be temporary. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

The prospect of him becoming sumo’s shortest-reigning Ozeki is all too real at the moment.

If I'm not mistaken, there has been only one rikishi so far in the 15-bouts era with just two basho as Ozeki:
http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=3799

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

If I'm not mistaken, there has been only one rikishi so far in the 15-bouts era with just two basho as Ozeki:
http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?r=3799

I should have stressed modern era. My bad. I forget there was sumo before 1958. Haha. 

In the six-basho-a-year era the shortest reign is five, a record held by Daiju and Tochinoshin (his two spells are counted separately). Itsutsushima was active in the two-basho-a-year era. There have been others with reigns shorter than five, but again, all in the days when they fought only a couple of times a year.

Once upon a time Ozeki had the luxury of surviving several makekoshi, but obviously now it’s two at most. At the same time though two tournaments is also the minimum anyone can hold the rank unless they retire after (or before) one, and even retiring after they might still make it onto the banzuke. Of course, this doesn’t include promotion to Yokozuna as a way of “losing” the rank. Thus if Takakeisho is demoted after two his record can only ever be equalled, not surpassed by an active rikishi.

Edited by Eikokurai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe he does the Musoyama. S -> O -> O -> S -> O -> O -> O...

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?shikona=Musoyama&heya=-1&shusshin=-1&b=-1&high=-1&hd=-1&entry=-1&intai=-1&sort=1

Musoyama is the only modern rikishi getting insta-demoted after his debut, but immediatelly bounced back.

This is a query for rikishi going S -> O -> O -> S. Tochiazuma is a facinating case. 15 O -> S -> O -> O -> S -> 13 O -> intai

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=5&n_basho=4&form1_rank=S&form2_rank=O&form3_rank=O&form4_rank=S

 

Edited by Benihana
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Benihana said:

Maybe he does the Musoyama. S -> O -> O -> S -> O -> O -> O...

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi.aspx?shikona=Musoyama&heya=-1&shusshin=-1&b=-1&high=-1&hd=-1&entry=-1&intai=-1&sort=1

Musoyama is the only modern rikishi getting insta-demoted after his debut, but immediatelly bounced back.

This is a query for rikishi going S -> O -> O -> S. Tochiazuma is a facinating case. 15 O -> S -> O -> O -> S -> 13 O -> intai

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Query.aspx?show_form=0&columns=5&n_basho=4&form1_rank=S&form2_rank=O&form3_rank=O&form4_rank=S

 

Well, now I’m confused. I’ve long been led to believe that Daiju is regarded as having the shortest Ozeki spell of the modern era. Presumably whoever decided that must have actually meant fewest total number of basho at the rank, but then it’s inaccurate to say he’s the shortest reigning Ozeki, since every spell is counted as a separate appearance. Tochiazuma, Tochinoshin, Musoyama etc are all considered to have been Ozeki at least twice, with each run of basho a different spell. That’s the definition I prefer, which actually then makes Musoyama the shortest reigning Ozeki from debut in the modern era.

 

Edited by Eikokurai

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Takakeishou did not participate in the Nishonoseki rengo keiko today. Instead, he trained at home, doing the fundamentals and checking out his tachiai with some Makushita guys. 6 times, to be exact. He even lent his chest to a Sandanme guy for a one-minute butsugari session, then did some personal training. "I'm giving it  around 50-60-70%. I can go all out if I want to, but I'd rather go gradually, getting used to it," he said. It was raining and the weather supposedly had a bad effect on his injured knee. "In the morning when I woke up I was OK and my condition wasn't bad," he explained. Now, the plan is to attempt to start doing sumo 5 days before the basho. "I've got to take that step," he summed.

 

201906270000923-w500_0.jpg

Edited by Kintamayama
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

Takakeishou did not participate in the Nishonoseki rengo keiko today.

Some veteran Oyakatas from the Ichimon were grumbling about Takakeishou not showing up. "It's customary that a Yokozuna /Ozeki, even when injured, shows up and meets and greets. He could have done some shiko dohyo- side- that alone could have  been good. During the three days of this rengo keiko, he could show himself at least once..," said someone anonymous.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Takakeishou has finally started doing sumo today after 44 days of not doing any. 5 bouts against Sandanme and Makushita rikishi from his heya, winning them all. "Deep inside I know it was really good. If I'm in this shape, I see no problem," he said. "I intend to enter. There is still time so I'm not making any declarations, but if I intended to not enter I wouldn't be in Nagoya, " he said also. He showed a lot of densha-michi (quick forward moving sumo) sumo. "At first i was a bit high since it's been a while and I was attacking at an awkward angle. From the second bout on I had no problems getting close.. Even when my right leg was behind me and I dug  in, there was no fear. My style is going all out powerfully together with the feeling, the sensation. it's not that I was bedridden or anything. I managed to maintain the muscles that give me that power. The rest is all in the feeling, I reckon" he added. Next? "I'll see how I feel tomorrow."

 

201907020000346-w500_0.jpg

 

 

Edited by Kintamayama
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
名古屋場所4日前に部屋で稽古を行った貴景勝(撮影・佐藤礼征)

 

Ozeki Takakeisho continued his training ahead of Nagoya today. As reported by Kintamayama just above he had 5 bouts against Makushita rikishi yesterday, he had seven in total today with the same level of opposition to try to regain his ring sense (no result given in the article).  It was just two more bouts than the day before, but today he also lent his chest for butsukarigeiko to heavyweight juryo Akiseyama who was around for training. "I felt the pressure and impact so it helped me to assess my knee" explained Takakeisho.
"From where I am today I can truly evaluate my condition. To put it simply my knee his close to optimal shape, I just have to be careful." he said, denying feeling disconfort on his right knee and showing once again his desire to enter.

While Takakeisho seems optimistic, his Oyakata is way more careful. "It's very hard to tell [what his condition is] because he didn't fight with any sekitori." he confessed after the training session. "I think he really wants to enter but it's my job to tell him 'don't be unreasonable ! you still have a long career ahead of you' if he is not ready "

The torikumi for the first two days are decided in two days (5th) so they plan to make a decision after evaluating his condition after tomorow's (4th) training session.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201907030000392.html

(The picture is from the article)

Edited by Rainoyama
  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Takakeisho's advisors have two choices. The first is allowing  him to compete in Nagoya and hope that without much training and a knee that may not be fully healed, he can somehow get eight wins and retain his ozeki rank.  The problem is that re-injury in such a situation is quite possible and if the injury is severe enough, it could affect his entire career. The second, much more logical choice would be to have him sit out Nagoya and be demoted to sekiwake for the Aki basho. By then, his knee would have almost certainly be healed and he will be able to do the necessary training to be ready.  Whereas Tochinoshin's return to ozeki was somewhat doubtful before the Natsu basho, a healthy Takakeisho should have no problem getting at least a 10-5 record and his ozeki rank again.

I like his oyakata's comment that by taking a reasonable approach. he will still have a long career ahead even if he  goes kyujo in Nagoya. It's a refreshing change from those advisors who allow injured rikishis who are not ready to compete to do so for no other reason than to avoid dropping further down the banzuke. Not only do they most often have make-koshi records, but they  also increase the possibliity of having additional injury.

The best example of this kind of mismanagement was the situation concerning Endo's torn ACL. If he had surgery resulting in a sound knee, he was talented enough to have overcome a fairly severe drop in rank and become the highly successful rikishi that many had predicted he would be. Instead, he was allowed to continue competing without the surgery. As a result, his knee was permanenty weakened and that probably led to other injuries. The bottom line was that he was never the same after his knee injury. Would he have become an ozeki or a yokozuna with a fully healed, much stronger knee? We'll never know, but one thing is certain. He would be a much better rikishi than he is now.  

Edited by sekitori
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, sekitori said:

 

Takakeisho's advisors have two choices. The first is allowing  him to compete in Nagoya and hope that without much training and a knee that may not be fully healed, he can somehow get eight wins and retain his ozeki rank.  The problem is that re-injury in such a situation is quite possible and if the injury is severe enough, it could affect his entire career. The second, much more logical choice would be to have him sit out Nagoya and be demoted to sekiwake for the Aki basho. By then, his knee would have almost certainly be healed and he will be able to do the necessary training to be ready.  Whereas Tochinoshin's return to ozeki was somewhat doubtful before the Natsu basho, a healthy Takakeisho should have no problem getting at least his 10-5 record and return to ozeki.

I like his oyakata's comment that by taking a reasonable approach. he will still have a long career ahead even if he  goes kyujo in Nagoya. It's a refreshing change from those advisors who allow injured rikishis who are not ready to compete to do so for no other reason than to avoid dropping further down the banzuke. Not only do they most often have make-koshi records, but they  also increase the possibliity of having additional injury.

The best example of this kind of mismanagement was the situation concerning Endo's torn ACL. If he had surgery resulting in a sound knee, he was talented enough to have overcome a fairly severe drop rank and become the highly successful rikishi that many had predicted he would be. Instead, he was allowed to continue competing without the surgery. As a result, his knee was permanenty weakened and that probably led to other injuries. The bottom line was that he was never the same after his knee injury. Would he have become an ozeki or a yokozuna with a fully healed, much stronger knee? We'll never know, but one thing is certain. He would be a much better rikishi than he is now.  

I agree though Terunofuji seems like an even better example imo as he was a young ozeki,  had knee problems as well and was never allowed to heal. He'd be there fighting injured for the whole 15 days only to embarass himself and finish 4-11,then had to come back the next basho and somehow win 8 to barely save his rank.  Eventually he had other issues but Takakeisho should look at that and don't push himself too much. He doesn't look ready at all to me but he can slowly start training which is encouraging. The best course for him would be to rest for Nagoya and come back as close as he can to top shape the next basho to try to get the 10 wins.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

朝稽古後、報道陣に取材対応する千賀ノ浦親方(元小結隆三杉)(撮影・佐藤礼征)

Takakeisho trained today but no bouts, just fundamentals and conditioning. The article I translated yesterday explained that a decision would be made just after training because the torikumi for the first two days are to be announced tomorow. No decision could be reached after training though as Takakeisho wants in and his Oyakata would prefer kyujo. The decision is therefore reported to the last possible minute as the talks between the two continue.

"I'm trying to convince him to go kyujo but he wants me to let him enter. We won't know until later today"" explained Chiganoura.

(I don't know what you guys think but if I was the oyakata there would be no talks. Takakeisho already wanted to come back from kyujo last basho, we all saw how successful that was, he should listen to his master and go kyujo. Clearly he is not ready.)

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/photonews/photonews_nsInc_201907040000429-0.html

(picture from the article)

 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sometimes oyakata really need to put their foot down if they want their rikishi to be able to come back from injury the right away. Takakeisho may resent his oyakata but he would be thanking him in the long term. Best to listen to the man training you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, WAKATAKE said:

Best to listen to the man training you.

You mean just like Endo did? (Neener,neener...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

Morning training at Chiganoura beya-from yesterday, with Takakeishou making a cameo. A rare glimpse of Hungarian veteran Masutouou. Takanofuji is the guy with the mole.

Only the video is from yesterday - the training is from the 26th

On 02/07/2019 at 18:39, Akinomaki said:

The NSK today posted a video from Chiganoura-beya asageiko on the 26th https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t4fDn37SVjg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As owners of the other kind of stable will tell you, you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink. 

(In this terribly forced analogy Takakeisho is the horse and the water is kyujo, in case it wasn’t clear. Other stable- and horse-based idioms are available upon request.)

Edited by Eikokurai
  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

Only the video is from yesterday - the training is from the 26th

Sorry, deleted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Breaking news: according to NHK news, Takakeisho is kyujo.  https://www3.nhk.or.jp/news/html/20190704/k10011982701000.html

This journalist over on twitter confirms it and says Takakeisho will be kyujo for the whole 15 days. He adds that when Takakeisho announced the news, sadness and frustration were piercing through his voice but Takakeisho said that the most important thing is not to cling to the ozeki rank but aim for highest rank of all therefore he decided to take the time to heal to be sure he can try to reach yokozuna. The journalist is impressed and so am I.

Edited by Rainoyama
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

貴景勝(2019年6月12日撮影)

This nikkan article says that the possibility of Takakeisho entering later was not completely rulled out although unlikely. He is expected to lose his rank and aim for 10 wins in september.

"When I thought about my future, I realized the right thing to do was to recover completely. I'm aiming for the one step higher on the banzuke so in order to do that I have to heal" said the 22 years old.

According to his oyakata, Takakeisho was the one who told him he'd be kyujo in the end. "I zoned out for a second and had a nice big breath of relief" he confessed. "If he entered and hurt himself a second the damage would be quite serious, I'm glad he decided on his own".

Takakeisho will now go back to Tokyo to continue his treatment and rehabilitation with specialists. His participation to the tour in August is not decided yet.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201907040000727.html

(picture from the article)

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hats off to this young man! I hope he'll be able to stay away and reward himself with the Aki yusho.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh man... I was sooooooooooooo looking forward to a 4 Ozeki Tournament and for seeing him overcoming his Kadoban Status establishing himself as a worthy (and worthwile) Ozeki. That is a real massive bummer... I do understand that it is the right decision to not compete and take time to heal, and I dont even blame anyone, but the dissapointment is BIG ! All fingers (and toes) crossed he heals well and makes the 10 wins in September.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mogami said:

Oh man... I was sooooooooooooo looking forward to a 4 Ozeki Tournament and for seeing him overcoming his Kadoban Status establishing himself as a worthy (and worthwile) Ozeki. That is a real massive bummer... I do understand that it is the right decision to not compete and take time to heal, and I dont even blame anyone, but the dissapointment is BIG ! All fingers (and toes) crossed he heals well and makes the 10 wins in September.

In his perspective, Better to be healthy and strive for Yokozuna rather than defending a rank he might lose overtime regardless.

Even better that time is on his side, rare to see 22 year olds ascend the upper ranks in such fashion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now