Rikishi younger than everyone above them on the banzuke

[Yarimotsu 522]

Rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke, Nagoya 2022:

Y1e

Terunofuji

29.11.1991

O2w

Shodai

05.11.1991

M3e

Tamawashi

16.11.1984

Ms5w

Shohozan

09.02.1984

Ms57w

Aozora

26.08.1983

Sd16w

Dairaido

17.04.1980

Sd40e

Shoketsu

05.09.1976

Takayasu is surpassed by Tamawashi and disappears again, Shohozan makes his final appearance.

Dairaido surpasses falling Asatenmai. Shoketsu posts an impressive 5-2 to surpass Gorikiyama and Yoshiazuma, capping our list at just 7 men.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Yarimotsu

[Yamanashi 3,726]

2 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

Rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke, Nagoya 2022:

Y1e

Terunofuji

29.11.1991

O2w

Shodai

05.11.1991

M3e

Tamawashi

16.11.1984

Ms5w

Shohozan

09.02.1984

Ms57w

Aozora

26.08.1983

Sd16w

Dairaido

17.04.1980

Sd40e

Shoketsu

05.09.1976

Takayasu is surpassed by Tamawashi and disappears again, Shohozan makes his final appearance.

Dairaido surpasses falling Asatenmai. Shoketsu posts an impressive 5-2 to surpass Gorikiyama and Yoshiazuma, capping our list at just 7 men.

At his retirement, Shohozan is older than a dozen kabu-holders in the NSK, some of whom retired almost ten years ago.

[Gurowake 3,922]

Aki 2022:

Y1e	Terunofuji	29.11.1991
O1e	Takakeisho	05.08.1996
S1w	Hoshoryu	22.05.1999
M11e	Kotoshoho	26.08.1999
M13w	Oho	14.02.2000
M16w	Hiradoumi	20.04.2000
J3e	Atamifuji	03.09.2002
Ms3e	Yoshii	01.08.2003
Ms28w	Otsuji	06.10.2003
Ms56w	Setonoumi	11.06.2004
Sd48e	Ieshima	26.01.2005
Sd58e	Shunrai	10.04.2005
Sd68e	Tanji	05.06.2006
Jd10w	Hayashiryu	04.07.2006
Jd11e	Rinko	04.07.2006
Jd58w	Noguchi	09.08.2006
Jk1w	Oyamazakura	15.08.2006
Jk2w	Takaarashi	28.12.2006

 

HIradoumi passes Atamifuji.

Yoshii passes Otsuji

Setonoumi passes Daihisho.

Shunrai passes Miyata.

Tanji passes Takashoki.

Noguchi passes Oyamazakura.

[Yarimotsu 522]

Rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke, Aki 2022:

Y1e

Terunofuji

29.11.1991

O1w

Shodai

05.11.1991

M3e

Tamawashi

16.11.1984

Sd4w

Asatenmai

23.05.1981

Sd33w

Dairaido

17.04.1980

Sd40e

Shoketsu

05.09.1976

With Shohozan off the rankings, the list of most impressive elders finds a large gulf in its center.

Asatenmai eclipses Aozora at the top of Sandanme. Shoketsu, turning 46 next week, threatens to make this list even shorter as Dairaido falls closer to his rank.

[Yarimotsu 522]

Rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke, Kyushu 2022:

Y1e

Terunofuji

29.11.1991

O1w

Shodai

05.11.1991

K1e

Tamawashi

16.11.1984

Sd17w

Dairaido

17.04.1980

Sd64w

Shoketsu

05.09.1976

Asatenmai falls to Sd33 and is surpassed by rising Dairaido. A short list now but I can't see it getting shorter after Kyushu.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Yarimotsu

[Godango 956]

1 hour ago, Yarimotsu said:

Rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke, Kyushu 2022:

Y1e

Terunofuji

29.11.1991

O1w

Shodai

05.11.1991

K1e

Tamawashi

16.11.1984

Sd17w

Dairaido

17.04.1980

Sd64w

Shoketsu

05.09.1976

Asatenmai falls to Sd33 and is surpassed by rising Dairaido. A short list now but I can't see it getting shorter after Kyushu.

Possibility of KK Tamawashi overtaking MK Shodai, and KK Shoketsu overtaking MK Dairaido if other results go that way.

[Gurowake 3,922]

Kyushu 2022:

Y1e	Terunofuji	29.11.1991
O1e	Takakeisho	05.08.1996
S1w	Hoshoryu	22.05.1999
M11w	Kotoshoho	26.08.1999
M13w	Oho	14.02.2000
M15w	Atamifuji	03.09.2002
Ms10e	Yoshii	01.08.2003
Ms24e	Otsuji	06.10.2003
Ms26e	Setonoumi	11.06.2004
Sd26w	Shunrai	10.04.2005
Sd32e	Tanji	05.06.2006
Sd80w	Hayashiryu	04.07.2006
Sd81e	Rinko	04.07.2006
Jd54e	Takaarashi	28.12.2006

Not many changes this time around, all of which shortened the list.

Atamifuji passes Hiradoumi (the reverse happened the previous basho)

Shunrai passes Ieshima

Takaarashi passes Oyamazauka and Noguchi

Takaarashi not doing too bad for the youngest in Ozumo.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Gurowake

[Gurowake 3,922]

Hatsu 2023:

Y1e	Terunofuji	29.11.1991
O1w	Takakeisho	05.08.1996
S1w	Hoshoryu	22.05.1999
M8w	Oho	14.02.2000
M10w	Hiradoumi	20.04.2000
J2e	Hokuseiho	12.11.2001
J3e	Atamifuji	03.09.2002
Ms10e	Otsuji	06.10.2003
Ms15e	Setonoumi	11.06.2004
Sd18e	Tanji	05.06.2006
Sd45w	Rinko	04.07.2006
Jd24w	Hayashiryu	04.07.2006
Jd36e	Satotanaka	26.10.2006
Jd72w	Takaarashi	28.12.2006

Oho passes Kotoshoho.

Hiradoumi passes Atamifuji, who also falls back below Hokuseiho.

Otsuji passes Yoshii.

Tanji passes Shunrai.

Rinko and Hayashiryu have different results finally, with the latter passing the former.

Satotanaka passes Takaarashi.

 

[Sakura 1,472]

It's odd not to see Yoshii on these lists.

[Koorifuu 886]

32 minutes ago, Sakura said:

It's odd not to see Yoshii on these lists.

It just goes to show how long he's been stagnating. Hopefully there'll be a breakthrough sooner rather than later.

[Yarimotsu 522]

Rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke, Hatsu 2023:

Y1e

Terunofuji

29.11.1991

S2e

Takayasu

28.02.1990

M2w

Tamawashi

16.11.1984

Sd27w

Aozora

26.08.1983

Sd52e

Dairaido

17.04.1980

Sd69e

Yoshiazuma

26.05.1977

Jd8e

Shoketsu

05.09.1976

As expected the list didn't get shorter after Kyushu. Instead we saw Takayasu leapfrog Tamawashi and Shodai, and Aozora came back past a falling Dairaido. Yoshiazuma surpasses falling Shoketsu.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Yarimotsu

[Gurowake 3,922]

Haru 2023

Y1e	Terunofuji	29.11.1991
O1w	Takakeisho	05.08.1996
S1w	Hoshoryu	22.05.1999
M5e	Kotoshoho	26.08.1999
M9w	Hiradoumi	20.04.2000
M15e	Hokuseiho	12.11.2001
J8w	Atamifuji	03.09.2002
J14w	Ochiai	22.08.2003
Ms18w	Setonoumi	11.06.2004
Sd21w	Shunrai	10.04.2005
Sd28e	Rinko	04.07.2006
Jd43w	Jokoki	16.07.2006
Jd57e	Noguchi	09.08.2006
Jd61e	Satotanaka	26.10.2006
Jd81e	Takaarashi	28.12.2006

Kotoshoho passes Oho, who also falls behind Hiradoumi.

Ochiai shows up on the banzuke, but doesn't displace anyone.

Otsuji falls below Setonoumi

Tanji falls below Shunrai.

Hayashiryu falls below Jokoki

Satotanaka falls below Noguchi.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Gurowake

[Koorifuu 886]

On 03/01/2023 at 04:38, Yarimotsu said:

Rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke, Hatsu 2023:

Y1e

Terunofuji

29.11.1991

S2e

Takayasu

28.02.1990

M2w

Tamawashi

16.11.1984

Sd27w

Aozora

26.08.1983

Sd52e

Dairaido

17.04.1980

Sd69e

Yoshiazuma

26.05.1977

Jd8e

Shoketsu

05.09.1976

As expected the list didn't get shorter after Kyushu. Instead we saw Takayasu leapfrog Tamawashi and Shodai, and Aozora came back past a falling Dairaido. Yoshiazuma surpasses falling Shoketsu.

With Tamawashi, Dairaido and Shoketsu having had a brilliant Hatsu basho, this list risks being real short for Haru. What's the all-time low?

[sahaven111 172]

8 minutes ago, Koorifuu said:

With Tamawashi, Dairaido and Shoketsu having had a brilliant Hatsu basho, this list risks being real short for Haru.

Y1e Terunofuji 29.11.1991 M1e Tamawashi 16.11.1984 Sd17w Katsunofuji 04.05.1984   Sd23e Dairaido 17.04.1980 0-0 Sd78e Shoketsu 05.09.1976 0-0     I believe this is the current list, sorry for the crappy formatting

[Yarimotsu 522]

Rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke, Hatsu 2023:

Y1e

Terunofuji

29.11.1991

M1e

Tamawashi

16.11.1984

Sd17w

Katsunofuji

04.05.1984

Sd23e

Dairaido

17.04.1980

Sd78e

Shoketsu

05.09.1976

Exactly as sahaven postulated above, we're back to just 5 rikishi in these elderly brackets. Regarding @Koorifuu's question, I doubt there was ever less than 4 but 3 sounds technically possible. I might look into it one day, make a graph... would only take an afternoon. This is the first time I have recorded Katsunofuji's name - previously he was kept off the list by Shohozan, Aozora and Asatenmai.

[Koorifuu 886]

I had 4 in mind due to my failure to recognise Katsunofuji's 6 wins at the ripe age of roughly 38 years and a half, leaping over Dairaido's 5. Well done to him.

[Reonito 1,335]

7 hours ago, Yarimotsu said:

Rikishi older than everyone above them on the banzuke, Hatsu 2023:

Y1e

Terunofuji

29.11.1991

M1e

Tamawashi

16.11.1984

Sd17w

Katsunofuji

04.05.1984

Sd23e

Dairaido

17.04.1980

Sd78e

Shoketsu

05.09.1976

Pretty remarkable that you have to go all the way down to Sd17 to find someone older than Tamawashi, who just went 9-6 at M2!

[Yamanashi 3,726]

4 hours ago, Reonito said:

Pretty remarkable that you have to go all the way down to Sd17 to find someone older than Tamawashi, who just went 9-6 at M2!

He is a wonder!  I noticed that he has made the leap from Maegashira to Sekiwake four times in his career, with perhaps a fifth time coming soon.  That must be somewhat rare.

[Reonito 1,335]

50 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

He is a wonder!  I noticed that he has made the leap from Maegashira to Sekiwake four times in his career, with perhaps a fifth time coming soon.  That must be somewhat rare.

Here's what the db has to say on the subject; it only shows 3 for him...

[Yamanashi 3,726]

33 minutes ago, Reonito said:

Here's what the db has to say on the subject; it only shows 3 for him...

Sorry, I was imprecise; I didn't mean directly from M to S, I meant that he fell into the Makuuchi ranks and then made it back to Sekiwake:

2016.09 M6w -> 2016.11 K1w -> 2017.01 S1e

2017.11 M1e -> 2018.01 S1w

2018.11 M2w -> 2019.01 S1w

2019.05 M3w -> 2019.07 S1w

It seems to me (but maybe it's just my imagination) that rikishi hit the Sekiwake high water mark and then settle down to mid-Makuuchiville (Takarafuji, Aoiyama, Meisei, etc.).  Myogiryu comes the closest to Tamawashi's perserverance among active rikishi, but his last Sekiwake basho was in 2015, and he's two years younger than Tamawashi.

[Reonito 1,335]

38 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Sorry, I was imprecise; I didn't mean directly from M to S, I meant that he fell into the Makuuchi ranks and then made it back to Sekiwake:

I thought that might be it, but that's a harder query to do since someone can hang out at K for multiple basho, either as M->K(n)->S or as S->K(n)->S. Looks like the total number of separate promotions to S tops out at 8, but I'm not sure how many of the drops in between didn't reach M.

[Yamanashi 3,726]

3 hours ago, Reonito said:

I thought that might be it, but that's a harder query to do since someone can hang out at K for multiple basho, either as M->K(n)->S or as S->K(n)->S. Looks like the total number of separate promotions to S tops out at 8, but I'm not sure how many of the drops in between didn't reach M.

Thanks for checking.  The "yo-yo to Sekiwake" observation occurred when I checked the db for his career.  I don't think it's typical of sekitori who top out at that rank.

Last year when I started doing research on which rikishi were going to be sniffing around for a kabu after retirement, I noticed a sort of "Lambda"-shaped curve -- the new guy charges up the hill to San'yaku and then falls back down again to reliable Makuuchi veteran. I dunno why -- Does everyone figure out his schtick by the time he hits his peak?  Do injuries catch up with him?  Will the realities of competing in the joi make him face facts?

Anyway, some recent examples:

Kyokutenho: 68 basho to S, 3 times in a year, never again for the remaining 70 basho of his career

Takekaze: 74 basho for S (once), 25 more basho in decline (Takekaze seems to have become a journeyman and then caught a break for his Sekiwake)

Aminishiki: the pre-Tamawashi, 4 times rose to Sekiwake, 5 years between his first and last

Kotoyuki: one basho as S in 2016

Ikioi: Likewise

Kaisei (A): Ditto

Aoiyama: S for two consecutive basho -- in 2014.

Meisei: 2 Sekiwake in 2021; we'll see

Takanosho: 5 Sekiwake ranks in 8 basho, then a big drop; we'll see

Takarafuji: Sekiwake in 2016, Makuuchi since.

 

Other than those who are clear Ozeki candidates, it's rare to see someone hit Sekiwake more than once or twice. 

Aminishiki hit his last Sekiwake basho at age 34, Tamawashi at 35.  Legitimate Ironmen.

[Yarimotsu 522]

1 hour ago, Yamanashi said:

Thanks for checking.  The "yo-yo to Sekiwake" observation occurred when I checked the db for his career.  I don't think it's typical of sekitori who top out at that rank.

Last year when I started doing research on which rikishi were going to be sniffing around for a kabu after retirement, I noticed a sort of "Lambda"-shaped curve -- the new guy charges up the hill to San'yaku and then falls back down again to reliable Makuuchi veteran. I dunno why -- Does everyone figure out his schtick by the time he hits his peak?  Do injuries catch up with him?  Will the realities of competing in the joi make him face facts?

I've studied some statistics just long enough ago for it to not be too practical, but recently enough for it to factor heavily into my thinking. I think the rise to S is almost inevitable for rikishi at some point in their career - if you're good enough to hang around in makuuchi, you'll probably make it there exactly once as a function of statistics alone. When the sanyaku is clearly stronger than the non-joi, that relationship is almost blindingly obvious - top does well, you rise from the middle having fought none of them, then you have to face them and rocket back down. 

However, those who reach it multiple times without becoming a mainstay - that's a much harder level to hit. A thin line. I think they are veterans in your examples because they don't give 100% every basho, that's just a theory - but something tells me if Tamawashi was at his best more often he'd at least be a serious ozeki candidate. The statistics of just reaching sekiwake but on multiple runs indicate severe fluctuation without a general trend up or down.

[Gurowake 3,922]

Natsu 2023

Y1e	Terunofuji	29.11.1991
O1w	Takakeisho	05.08.1996
S1w	Hoshoryu	22.05.1999
M5w	Kotoshoho	26.08.1999
M9w	Hiradoumi	20.04.2000
M11e	Hokuseiho	12.11.2001
J8e	Atamifuji	03.09.2002
J8w	Ochiai	22.08.2003
Ms18e	Otsuji	06.10.2003
Ms24e	Setonoumi	11.06.2004
Sd11e	Tanji	05.06.2006
Sd56w	Rinko	04.07.2006
Jd32e	Hayashiryu	04.07.2006
Jd36w	Takaarashi	28.12.2006
Jk7w	Daibasho	21.03.2008

 

All the sekitori remain as they were last basho.

Otsuji passes Setonoumi.

Tanji passes Shunrai.

Hayashiryu passes Jokoki and Noguchi.

Takaarashi passes Satotanaka.

Daibasho makes his debut as the youngest rikishi on the banzuke.  I didn't think it was possible for someone to join for the March tournament before their 15th birthday as every other rikishi I've noticed entering in the March of that birthday was born on the 1st.  Was that just a coincidence in the past, is he a year ahead of where he might have normally been, or is there some change in how this works?

[Asashosakari 18,786]

The cutoff date is April 1 in Japan's school system. In any case, we only need to go back three years to find a shindeshi class that was full of March-born rookies.