Kintamayama

Naruto beya-new violence..

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2 hours ago, Kuroyama said:

Fine, it's 20. Whatever. I was originally replying to speculation that it was 22-year-old Oju who was the victim. It's clear either way that he was not. Using 20, he's one the 3 rikishi in the heya not potentially the victim, not counting Sumidagawa himself.

You're probably right.  I noticed that Oju also was gone for ,most of this basho; since I can't read Japanese, and even most of the experts on the Forum can't completely decipher Japanese news [Cripes, how'd we ever decipher their damn code?], I merely pointed out that he was also missing most of this basho.  If the translations are correct, the infractions came to light in September, so maybe they kept competing until Naruto/NSK figured things out.

Just to add one item: Narutobeya's twitter page usually updates about once a day, even if just to display the day's chanko offerings.  It's been silent since 1/26, and Naruto's Ameba page since the end of the basho.  So even foreign-born Oyakata uphold the NSK tradition of clamming up?

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Timeline gathered from Japanese news articles:

  • The perpetrator starts hitting the victim with a smartphone for mistakes
  • In September it escalated to Judo chokeholds
  • In December the perpetrator instructed another junior rikishi to perform the chokehold, as a result the victim passed out
  • In January the victim asks a more senior rikishi for advice
  • The victim is put through a chokehold again
  • Naruto oyakata is informed of the situation by the stable manager
  • On the first day of Hatsu, Naruto oyakata questions the perpetrator, puts him down as kyujo, and informs the NSK
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13 hours ago, Fukurou said:

I've been wondering along similar lines - how much of this sort of thing is because of the way sumo is organized in the first place.

95%?   You put these hormone filled young kids who may be frustrated, angry, uneducated, tired, ...., in one small place,  !#@$#@ can and will happen.  

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A shin-deshi in Ryogoku sees a sekitori getting out of a Celsior and asks, “How do you get to makunouchi?” Without pause, the oyakata replies wearily, “Practice."

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2 hours ago, Otokonoyama said:

A shin-deshi in Ryogoku sees a sekitori getting out of a Celsior and asks, “How do you get to makunouchi?” Without pause, the oyakata replies wearily, “Practice."

(rim-shot emoji)

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NARUTOBEYA TWITTER CRICKETS WATCH:

Now 9 days since any post on narutobeyateam; 8 since any post by Kotooshu Naruto

 

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On 01/02/2019 at 14:31, Fukurou said:

I've been wondering along similar lines - how much of this sort of thing is because of the way sumo is organized in the first place.

In many cases, you have a group of young men forced together in a "survival of the fittest" hierarchical situation. If you get "stuck" (bouncing around at about the same rank, not really advancing anywhere), and your personal situation doesn't allow any real way out for you if you desire, I'd think you might start getting more than a little frustrated. If you're a bit of a bully to begin with (or just used to being the big fish in the small pond back at home), perhaps you might take out that frustration on the easiest thing available - those below you in the hierarchy, especially the ones who aren't willing to push things by standing up to you. It's not like these guys have a lot of "adult supervision" to begin with.

(or not even built up frustration by a stuck rikishi; the higher ranker / star who's frustrated had a bad day/basho isn't immune to taking things out on others - from junior rikishi to the okami-san, as we've seen in the past)

I'm not sure how much can be attributed to the sport for the simple reason that if you look behind closed doors of many schools, even co-ed ones, or non-boarding ones, there will be plenty of incidents of bullying, whether by older kids to younger ones or big brutes in the same year towards weaker or more timid ones.  These incidents never make the papers and are usually dealt with in-house.  If police intervention is justified, they cannot be reported in the press (in some jurisdictions) because they are minors.  In short, if someone is an arsehole and they think they can get away with it (either because they are sneaky and calculating about how the bullying/intimidation is inflicted or because they are confident that the victim won't tell), then they'll do it.  Depending on whether this is identified and addressed effectively, it may also follow into their domestic lives as adults.  This is true of 'regular' people outside of a sumo or other contact sport environment.  

The fact that sumo is a contact sport, with many strong ambitious young men under the same roof and the regime of hierarchy, may indeed aggravate the risk of inter-rikishi violence and bullying, but I do not believe for one minute that it creates it; plenty of kids in their teens will suffer beatings from fellow pupils or even their own parents or siblings.  Many universities have problems with frat-house initiation hazings, though this also carries some aspect of hierarchy in a single-sex environment... Of course, that doesn't mean that such violence is 'normal' or indeed 'right', I'm just trying to lay down some context here.  I think sumo's problem was that hazings etc. were basically part of sumo culture.  I would like to think that sumo is moving away from that and that incidents such as these are isolated, or attributable to single arseholes, rather than because it is culturally acceptable.

The oyakata does have a responsibility as he is their legal guardian and my heart breaks for a rikishi's family who have entrusted their son to a heya far from home, thinking he will be looked after.  But even with Big Brother surveillance, a bully will always find an opportunity if they really want to. 

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Just a friendly piece of advice: If you really want people to read a wall of text, don't start with "I'm not sure..."!

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On 31/01/2019 at 11:45, John Gunning said:

 

Take a look at the scene at 06:52

 

"These are no street bullies"

Yeah right. :-/

I've heard of the hazing going in Sumo for a while, (admittedly i have never been a true follower, more of a part-time fan) but this is the first time i've ever actually seen it.  That is completely shocking, there's nothing that poor recruit could ever learn from that, except to become really disheartened with Sumo.  Who is the Ba****d that did that?  Anyone know?  So that i never mistakenly cheer for him even by accident in the future.

Edit:  Never mind, i just realised it's an old documentary.

Edited by Bugman

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On 04/02/2019 at 09:17, Yamanashi said:

NARUTOBEYA TWITTER CRICKETS WATCH:

Now 9 days since any post on narutobeyateam; 8 since any post by Kotooshu Naruto

 

As of today: Narutobeya twitter: 12 days silence; Oyakata blog: 11

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8 hours ago, Yamanashi said:

As of today: Narutobeya twitter: 12 days silence; Oyakata blog: 11

Punishment decision tomorrow, so surely there will be nothing before that.

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The Kyokai convened today to decide what to do about this affair. The new compliance committee recommended intai for the Sandanme rikishi, Naruto Oyakata complied and sent in the papers, the retirement was acknowledged, so Sumidagawa has retired. As for Naruto Oyakata, since the heya is in "temporary status" (can anyone explain?) and he is away from the heya a lot because of his work and can not fulfill his Oyakata duties thoroughly, he gets off relatively lightly with a three month 10% salary fine. As for the other rikishi who was forced to bully the victim, he was cautioned.

Edited by Kintamayama
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This seems to be a serious mismanagement issue in the kyokai. Oyakata at small stables with no additional coaches on staff are assigned to positions that keep them away from their heya. Doesn't matter if it's the inept Nishikido or the very competent Naruto, leaving a group of boys and young men unsupervised for long stretches is not going to end well. Why would parents send their kids off to learn some discipline when it's not tempered with moral guidance?

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That leaves me with the question of the heya manager, and a question to John Gunning: can you do an article about the people who aren't oyakata (or okamisan) who are necessary to run the heya day to day?  I know Naruto has someone (he shows up in photos on the twitter feed occasionally), and I assume that in a larger heya there might be a staff.  What are the duties of these people (obviously help with travel arrangements, do external relations, etc.)  The story that filtered down to me was that the heya manager broke the news of the infraction to Naruto. 

Otokonoyama's point is well taken: how can the head of a small heya do official business and also be headmaster to a bunch of high-school age kids?

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5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

As for Naruto Oyakata, since the heya is in "temporary status" (can anyone explain?) ...

Temporary location?

On 01/04/2017 at 10:50, Kintamayama said:

Naruto beya has officially been opened today headed by proud Naruto Oyakata, ex-Kotooushuu. "I'm happy. This is my first heya. I came from Bulgaria 19 years ago and at heart I feel I am Japanese. I'd like to bring up guys that will surpass my achievements. I have my own way of training. We shall see..." he said. Around a hundred guests were there for the ceremony. The heya is at a temporary residence and the plan is to move to permanent quarters in Sumida-ku in two years.

That's still the case, I believe.

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9 minutes ago, Asashosakari said:

Temporary location?

That's still the case, I believe.

I thought it meant the heya itself is still regarded as temporary for a certain amount of time or something like that.

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Maybe it means that they've only been a temporary inconvenience and therefore the fine is reduced. 

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On 04/02/2019 at 09:17, Yamanashi said:

NARUTOBEYA TWITTER CRICKETS WATCH:

Now 9 days since any post on narutobeyateam; 8 since any post by Kotooshu Naruto

 

As of 2/10 (and two days past the NSK news), 15 and 14.

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On 09/02/2019 at 20:25, Yamanashi said:

As of 2/10 (and two days past the NSK news), 15 and 14.

2/14: 19 days and 18 days

 

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2/19:  At last, a note from Naruto Oyakata on his Ameblo page https://ameblo.jp/kotooshu-naruto/entry-12441326744.html

このたびは部屋で起きた問題について、多大なるご心配をおかけし大変申し訳ございませんでした。

しっかりと反省し、また相撲協会からの処分を真摯に受け止め、今後このようなことを起こさないよう指導、監督していきます。

これからは、稽古場だけではなく、生活面でも前向きに取り組むことができる環境を整え、相撲道に挑戦してよかったと鳴戸部屋全員が思えるよう、真摯に取り組んで参ります。

今後とも鳴戸部屋をよろしくお願い致します。

Accepts the judgement of the NSK, and promises to prepare a positive environment not only on the training side, but also on the living side.

An article on Yahoo news (?) suggested a reason for the "temporary" designation in previous news stories: it appears that Naruto and family do not live at the heya, so there is not a 24-hour presence there.

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 ... and now two tweets saying the same on twitter.com/NARUTOBEYAteam.

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