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Hatsu Basho 2019 Discussion [SPOILERS]

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4 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

  The way Hakuho has looked the last two days makes me wonder if indeed he can handle some of the newly blossoming talent that he has yet to face.  Talk to me after he faces Mitakeumi, Nishikigi, and Takakesho.  

The Joi is packed with strong young eager talent and the Ozeki/Yokozuna ranks are mostly old and/or injured. There has to be a point where the guard decisively changes and this basho may be it. Hak will probably still be going a couple of years from now but I reckon he will mostly be contending against guys ten years younger than him in a year or two.

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Daishomaru after the Chiyonokuni bout looked like "The guys back at the heya said a Henka would work big-time, and instead I look like a putz.  What a bunch of morons."

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14 minutes ago, Atenzan said:

The YDC can't actually make any decision, per se, just a recommendation. Tagonoura-oyakata might be able to be more "persuasive" with his "recommendation", but in the end it's up to the fat man on when the fat lady will sing. 

I’m aware they have no de jure authority to decide for him, but their de facto authority is real enough and Kise wouldn’t ignore a recommendation.

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After catching up to all 3 days in one go (highlights, thanks Kintamayama for doing this for us!), I got one question:

WHAT. THE. HELL. IS. HAPPENING. THERE?!

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On 11/01/2019 at 15:14, since_94 said:

Any idea what day of the tournament  the Emperor is most likely to attend? It would be cool to catch a glimpse of him

The Imperial household office announced today that the Imperial couple will watch at the basho on the 20th (nakabi day 8), for the 23rd and last time as such, the last time was 2 years ago. http://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2019011500892&g=soc

Edited by Akinomaki
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4 hours ago, Old Shatterhand is dead said:

Anyhow I just would like to raise your attention what we are witnessing in this tournament is the beginning of the long awaited generation change in makuuchi. it is really happening now. 

They've been swapping out Ozeki since 2014 (including Terunofuji who's a post-2010 rikishi [aka part of the "new generation"]).

Granted, last year was the first year since 2015 that a new generation rikishi won the yusho (and that twice), but would that have happened if Harumafuji hadn't prematurely retired (quite possibly for Mita since no one else was close, but eh for Taka)?

When both Hakuho and Kakuryu start going kadoban for 3+ tournaments, and both Takakeisho and Mitakeumi are O/Y with more yusho behind them, then the generation change will be happening.  Yeah, they both look excellent right now, but so did Terunofuji in 2015.

Edited by itchyknee
parenthetical

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5 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

The Imperial household office announced today that the Imperial couple will watch at the basho on the 20th (nakabi day 8), for the 23rd and last time as such, the last time was 2 years ago. http://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2019011500892&g=soc

I wonder if this is influencing or will influence Kisenosato's retirement decision.  On one hand, having a Japanese Yokozuna fight before the Emperor during his last visit to the Kokugikan has significance, but losing in such a sad way is also something of an embarrassment.  I guess we will see if Kise hangs on until Sunday...

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2 hours ago, Rocks said:

The point would be, it ain't over. If he retires that's it. No matter how small a chance there is for him it's infinitely larger than if he walks away.  Kisenosato has had a great career. He is an outstanding ozeki who reached the pinnacle of his sport, winning 2 yusho and attaining Yokozuna status. He has more than done himself and his nation proud. That is what people in Japan will remember, not how his career ended. Everyone will, rightly, blame that on a very unfortunate injury to what was one of the most consistent and healthy rikishi ever. Why anyone thinks he should be concerned about his legacy or the Yokozuna status at this point I have no clue. 

Like several other good rikishi, Kise has the bad luck to live with the GOAT and a strong yokozuna of Harumafuji. If he was not injured, he might be as good as Kakuryu. 

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10 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

Like several other good rikishi, Kise has the bad luck to live with the GOAT and a strong yokozuna of Harumafuji. If he was not injured, he might be as good as Kakuryu. 

Had Kise not been injured and instead was as healthy as he had been with the confidence of Yokozuna status he would have surpassed Kakuryu in total Yusho.

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2 hours ago, rhyen said:

More like an unend-able Bleach arc because certain parties are still talking up Kisenosato all the time. 

Bleach....an even better comparison!...and one that reminds me that Shonen Jump picked the wrong serial to immortalise on Kise's kesho set. His character Raoh is known  to always advance... never retreat.

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The best reason ever for a henka - Terutsuyoshi (from Harumafuji's heya) vs. Takagenji

"I had the feeling that the god(s) of sumo told me not to go straight on," - after a false start where he made Takagenji fall on his backside and likely got him angry: "because he might fly into rage and come at me, he's scary then"

http://www.daily.co.jp/general/2019/01/15/0011981438.shtml

Edited by Akinomaki
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6 minutes ago, itchyknee said:

They've been swapping out Ozeki since 2014 (including Terunofuji who's a post-2010 rikishi [aka part of the "new generation"]).

Granted, last year was the first year since 2015 that a new generation rikishi won the yusho (and that twice), but would that have happened if Harumafuji hadn't prematurely retired (quite possibly for Mita since no one else was close, but eh for Taka)?

When both Hakuho and Kakuryu start going kadoban for 3+ tournaments, and both Takakeisho and Mitakeumi are O/Y with more yusho behind them, then the generation change will be happening.  Yeah, they both look excellent right now, but so did Terunofuji in 2015.

I see what you mean and I am not saying you are wrong what happened to Terunofuji it´s sad and rare (we are all glad that it is rare of course) injuries happen often and we all know they can set any rikishi back for years (Ura for example) but if there are not any other health issues they can usually come back where they belong. 

Generation change is maybe a strong word but it definitely is coming and this basho feels more significant in that regard because we all see the end coming for Kisenosato and Y/O without Hakuho have a combined record of 2-13, 5-13 with him (not sure if something like that did happen before)

But it´s natural there are gonna be some major changes in very near future because only 2 out of 10 sanyaku rikishis for this tournament are under 30 and from the 8 only Tochinoshin is younger than 32

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47 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I wonder if this is influencing or will influence Kisenosato's retirement decision.  On one hand, having a Japanese Yokozuna fight before the Emperor during his last visit to the Kokugikan has significance, but losing in such a sad way is also something of an embarrassment.  I guess we will see if Kise hangs on until Sunday...

He can also go kyujo now and return just for day 8 before going kyujo again and announcing his intai. That is if he really wants to fight in front of the imperial couple.

Also if they arrive before the makuuchi dohyo-iri then they perform a special dohyo-iri. I would like to see this live, so please, take your seat early, your imperial highnesses!

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Kisenosato is likely to face M4e Kotoshogiku on Day 8.

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1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

I wonder if this is influencing or will influence Kisenosato's retirement decision.  On one hand, having a Japanese Yokozuna fight before the Emperor during his last visit to the Kokugikan has significance, but losing in such a sad way is also something of an embarrassment.  I guess we will see if Kise hangs on until Sunday...

I wonder too. I wonder too how embarrassing or sad it would be seen as there. It would make a great story even in loss. Imagine it's Day 8.  An 0-7 Kisenosato, determined to try until their is no hope,  mounts the dohyo and loses for the 8th time and gets that most ignominious of records, a Yokozuna makekoshi. As he departs the dohyo for the last time a grateful Emperor stands and applauds the effort of the only Japanese Yokozuna to try to win, no matter how futile it seems, as he himself then departs the Kokugikan for the last time as Emperor.  It may come off as too nationalistic for many  but I think it would a be beautiful. Certainly not sad or embarrassing to me.

Edited by Rocks

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5 hours ago, Old Shatterhand is dead said:

could you respect me with more details? I have a feeling you mixed up keiko and senko...

Senko? 

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1 hour ago, Nantonoyama said:

Also if they arrive before the makuuchi dohyo-iri then they perform a special dohyo-iri. I would like to see this live, so please, take your seat early, your imperial highnesses!

That's a good point.  I can't recall clearly, but I have the impression that the Emperor and Empress often arrive part way through the Top Division bouts.  Like you, I hope they arrive in time to view the Yokozuna dohyoiri. :-)

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3 hours ago, itchyknee said:

They've been swapping out Ozeki since 2014 (including Terunofuji who's a post-2010 rikishi [aka part of the "new generation"]).

Granted, last year was the first year since 2015 that a new generation rikishi won the yusho (and that twice), but would that have happened if Harumafuji hadn't prematurely retired (quite possibly for Mita since no one else was close, but eh for Taka)?

When both Hakuho and Kakuryu start going kadoban for 3+ tournaments, and both Takakeisho and Mitakeumi are O/Y with more yusho behind them, then the generation change will be happening.  Yeah, they both look excellent right now, but so did Terunofuji in 2015.

I wrote we are witnessing the beginning of the generation change, and I think this statement still stands. We have three (?) "old" yokozunas who are seemingly over their best days, three "old" and vulnerable ozekis, whose main target many times to avoid kadoban status without real chance for a yokozuna run. I would not be surprised if Tochinoshin lost his ozeki title in this year and I am not sure about Goeido either.

"When both Hakuho and Kakuryu start going kadoban 3+ tournaments (...)"  When it happens the generation change will not be happening but it will be an inch to be completed.

It started for sure.

Edited by Old Shatterhand is dead
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If you remove Hakuho from the picture and correct the gyoji's decision, the Y/O are now 1-14!

Veeeery poor indeed.

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New sanyaku gyoji Kimura Konosuke made his Yokozuna dohyo-iri debut, but did so with a zori on his left foot only. The other one went missing at some point between the shitaku-beya and the dohyo.

Tokyo police are hunting a bald man seen running out of the arena clutching the zori to his chest while loudly proclaiming himself president of the International Konosuke Appreciation Society.

OK not really - a yobidashi retrieved the stray zori and returned it to its right(ful) foot.

I wonder if those zori with the tsuna-style straps are worn only for Yokozuna dohyo-iri. It would be a nice touch but I can't say I've ever paid any attention to that before.


yCzQSqHm_o.jpg

 

On ‎14‎/‎01‎/‎2019 at 14:19, Jakusotsu said:

After yesterday's bloodbath against Ikioi, Kagayaki drew blood from Sadanoumi today as well. That guy really likes to butt his head, it seems.


Another casualty was Kimura Motoki's outfit, which had to be sent for cleaning after some of Ikioi's copious claret ended up on it. Meanwhile on Day 2 the bloodletting resumed down in Jonidan courtesy of Ogitora (not the fault of Kagayaki though).


FAtK3Irk_o.jpg

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3 minutes ago, Yubinhaad said:

New sanyaku gyoji Kimura Konosuke made his Yokozuna dohyo-iri debut, but did so with a zori on his left foot only. The other one went missing at some point between the shitaku-beya and the dohyo.

And not in his traditional red !

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Another great video from long time sumo editor and YouTuber Chris Gould, this time including a very interesting backstory for Tochiozan:

 

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Just watched highlights (and not read this thread yet...) and haven't even checked if Kise has announced intai or not. He should. That's it for me, been a big fan and been upbeat and positive, but for me that's the straw that broke the camels back, just go.

In other news: that's why Hak is GOAT (even though I don't like his dame oshi etc on occassion...)

Takakeisho still looking good.

Nishikigi, what the?!?

Loving it :-)(Laughing...)

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Of course the wideshows are full of reports about Kise - more of it each day, esp. Tokudane, with Ishinriki

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