Hatsu Basho 2019 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[RabidJohn 1,628]

On 28/01/2019 at 10:44, Benihana said:

Hokutofuji is the guy who looks like he has cut in half golf balls implanted on his forehead, clearly visible through his hair. Don't know if it's battle damage from headbutting too much, but kudos to the tokoyama having to work with that.

I know it's cruel, but I've always thought it's from when he was given a "good bashin' wi' th'ugly stick when 'e worra babby", as they say in Yorkshire.

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Massive congratulations to Tamawashi. None of us saw that coming, unless you count the solitary "someone else"!

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Re: Takakeisho's and Tamawashi's potentially identical ozeki runs, which was mentioned too far back for me to find again, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Tamawashi gets the nod with 11 wins in March, right after Takakeisho was told to keep trying. I won't find it contradictory, either. Tamawashi became a sanyaku regular before Mitakeumi and Takayasu, and he's damn near on a par with Mitakeumi (despite nearly always losing to him). Takakeisho doesn't have that sort of track record.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

1 hour ago, RabidJohn said:

I know it's cruel, but I've always thought it's from when he was given a "good bashin' wi' th'ugly stick when 'e worra babby", as they say in Yorkshire.

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Massive congratulations to Tamawashi. None of us saw that coming, unless you count the solitary "someone else"!

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Re: Takakeisho's and Tamawashi's potentially identical ozeki runs, which was mentioned too far back for me to find again, I wouldn't be at all surprised if Tamawashi gets the nod with 11 wins in March, right after Takakeisho was told to keep trying. I won't find it contradictory, either. Tamawashi became a sanyaku regular before Mitakeumi and Takayasu, and he's damn near on a par with Mitakeumi (despite nearly always losing to him). Takakeisho doesn't have that sort of track record.

I can’t see Tamawashi getting promoted with 11 wins. He may have a history of sanyaku appearances but his 9-6 was from M2, so that not impressive as far as the NSK is concerned, and his yusho tournament is a career exception that came when the banzuke was heavily depleted up top. At his age (34) I can the see the NSK demanding more from him in an Ozeki run to show his form is more than just a blip. I’d also argue that he was fortunate to make it as high as Sekiwake with a 9-6 at M2, with the three sanyaku makekoshi making room for him. Takakeisho only moved from Kw to Ke after his 9-6, such is the luck of the banzuke.

Edit: Tamawashi’s sanyaku record is fairly average too. He’s had 11 basho as K/S and managed 6 kachikoshi, 5 makekoshi.

Edited January 30, 2019 by Eikokurai

[robnplunder 974]

35 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

I can’t see Tamawashi getting promoted with 11 wins. He may have a history of sanyaku appearances but his 9-6 was from M2, so that not impressive as far as the NSK is concerned, and his yusho tournament is a career exception that came when the banzuke was heavily depleted up top. At his age (34) I can the see the NSK demanding more from him in an Ozeki run to show his form is more than just a blip. I’d also argue that he was fortunate to make it as high as Sekiwake with a 9-6 at M2, with the three sanyaku makekoshi making room for him. Takakeisho only moved from Kw to Ke after his 9-6, such is the luck of the banzuke.

Edit: Tamawashi’s sanyaku record is fairly average too. He’s had 11 basho as K/S and managed 6 kachikoshi, 5 makekoshi.

It'd take a miracle of sort for Tamawashi to get promoted after the next basho.   He probably has to get an yusho with high number of wins.  Even then, he'd immediately be a kadoban candidate.   This was a fluke yusho after the top ranks were devastated.   Then again, I can say the similar about all the recent yushos won by non Yokozuna.  

[Rocks 1,801]

I think a large factor in Takakeisho not getting the Ozeki nod was Tamawashi winning the yusho. Considering the last year, 4 of the last 7 yusho being won by non-ozeki 1st time winners, that they need to de-emphasize merely winning a yusho as an automatic ozeki run. If it does not look likely that there will be s stream of guys getting 11 wins or winning a yusho at high ranks then ozeki promotion criteria gets more lax. if, at it has been lately, that there were be new yusho winners and guys regularly making 11 wins from joi then the standards will get stricter. Having the current Ozeki's almost constantly on kyujo watch along with the Yokzuna is not helping either.

[robnplunder 974]

Takakeisho didn't get the Ozeki rank b/c there is a height limitation to become one.   One has to be at least 180 cm tall and TKO is officially 7 cm short of the limit.   They made an exception on Kotoshogiku who measured in at 179 cm.   This bothered Kotoshogiku throughout his Ozeki career until he couldn't live with it anymore.  He decided to MK on purpose to step down from the Ozeki rank without causing suspicion.   Meanwhile, TKO is on a special hormone diet to grow taller.    I got this info directly from well respected forum trolls members.  

PS - Yokozuna height limitation was recently increased to 185 cm. 

[Benevolance 2,453]

I don't think Tamawashi, Takakeisho and Mitakeumi are particularly great rikishi yet, but I don't think they'll have to be. Tochinoshin, Goeidou, and Takayasu are hardly the most intimidating line up of ozeki, Hak seems content to compete just enough for longevity, and Kakuryu has been nursing chronic injuries for years. If 2 out of 3 of these guys aren't Ozeki by the end of Nagoya, I'll be genuinely surprised. 

[robnplunder 974]

1 hour ago, Benevolance said:

I don't think Tamawashi, Takakeisho and Mitakeumi are particularly great rikishi yet, but I don't think they'll have to be. Tochinoshin, Goeidou, and Takayasu are hardly the most intimidating line up of ozeki, Hak seems content to compete just enough for longevity, and Kakuryu has been nursing chronic injuries for years. If 2 out of 3 of these guys aren't Ozeki by the end of Nagoya, I'll be genuinely surprised. 

Exactly.   The coexistent days of Haruma, Hak, Kak, and Kise are gone forever without their collective greatness being replaced by anyone.   Two of them have intai'd and the other two are spending more time in kyujo than in dohyo.    And yet, no one has stepped up.  When Tochinoshin won, I thought he'd replace Haruma's missing presence.  That didn't happen.    Takayasu hasn't stepped up either.  Takakeisho has done OK but not enough to get the Ozeki promotion after garnering 33 wins in the last 3 basho.   Mitakeumi looked good at times but is not even in the Ozeki run.   All the up and coming young rikishi (Hokuto, Asanoyama, Yutakayam, ...) has just gone up and down the joi ride.    Sigh.

[Amamaniac 2,078]

A review of Tamawashi's kimarite in the latest tournament shows that none of his win decisions were based on yotsu-sumo.  Nine wins involved oshi-sumo techniques, and the other four, shove-down techniques.  Yes, that is not surprising given that he is primarily a pusher-thruster, and he had become a darn good one at that.  But certainly he did not display as well-rounded a kimarite mix as one usually sees in elite wrestlers like Hakuho.

The other interesting thing to recall is that although Tamawashi won the championship, he did lose to Takakeisho and Mitakeumi.  I always withhold a teensy amount of respect for yusho winners, when they have lost their bout against the jun-yusho winner, which was the case here.  While Takakeisho definitely blew his Ozeki-promotion chances by losing on day 15, had he won that bout, I think the fact that he had defeated the eventual tournament champion would have definitely boosted a positive outcome in the final decision.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Amamaniac

[Kamitsuumi 384]

2 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

A review of Tamawashi's kimarite in the latest tournament shows that none of his win decisions were based on yotsu-sumo.  Nine wins involved oshi-sumo techniques, and the other four, shove-down techniques.  Yes, that is not surprising given that he is primarily a pusher-thruster, and he had become a darn good one at that.  But certainly he did not as well-rounded a kimarite mix as one usually sees in elite wrestlers like Hakuho.

He has not won by any yotsu-zumo kimarite since 2016, and the last two by yorikiri against Shodai and Kotoshogiku did not involve any belt action. The last one he won while touching the mawashi seems to be a yorikiri against Nishikigi in Nagoya 2016.

[Katooshu 3,079]

He has a pretty good kotenage (I would consider this a yotsu technique...you are grabbing your opponent and throwing them) and it's second in his winning kimarite list  (a mere 248 behind oshiwashi), though even then he hasn't won with it since July last year. 

Pusher-thrusters gonna push and thrust.

Edited February 1, 2019 by Katooshu

[Eikokurai 3,433]

1 hour ago, Katooshu said:

He has a pretty good kotenage (I would consider this a yotsu technique...you are grabbing your opponent and throwing them) and it's second in his winning kimarite list  (a mere 248 behind oshiwashi), though even then he hasn't won with it since July last year. 

Pusher-thrusters gonna push and thrust.

I was about to say the same thing. At the Nagoya tournament last year he injured both Kotoshogiku and Chiyonokuni in the space of three days using kotenage. Both went kyujo after that. He also used it on Tochinoshin earlier in the basho and he too went kyujo, though I don’t recall if that was because of the armlock or not.

[WAKATAKE 2,610]

2 hours ago, TillerTheChiller said:

Not only that he caused up to three injuries that basho, he also got two fusensho (from yokozuna, nonetheless) and ended up going kyujo himself.

If you are referring to Tamawashi he has never gone kyujo in his career.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

10 hours ago, TillerTheChiller said:

Not only that he caused up to three injuries that basho, he also got two fusensho (from yokozuna, nonetheless) and ended up going kyujo himself.

Not sure I follow. Tamawashi is famously sumo’s iron man for never missing a bout and he didn’t get any fusensho in Nagoya last year, let alone two from Yokozuna. 

[Rocks 1,801]

11 hours ago, TillerTheChiller said:

Not only that he caused up to three injuries that basho, he also got two fusensho (from yokozuna, nonetheless) and ended up going kyujo himself.

I think you are talking about Chiyonokuni and the fusehsho.

[dada78641 884]

I totally forgot about this one screenshot I made on day 14.

To be honest, it doesn't have anything to do with sumo, but still...