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Hatsu Basho 2019 Discussion [SPOILERS]

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6 minutes ago, Gernobono said:

Who is "most of us"?

Apologies.  Reading some of the posts above, there were definitely some surprised people.  

Edited by Amamaniac

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1 hour ago, Jakusotsu said:

Good point, I guess. Especially considering how gently Takayasu walked Mitakeumi out. Do you think they split?

Mita probably felt sorry for ruining Takayasu's chance at yusho in the previous basho.   So, he's probably donating the entire stash to Takayasu.  ;-)

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4 hours ago, Gernobono said:

...but still i would prefer only the sound from the kokugikan without any commentary......

I always watch sumo with the sound turned way down or my hearing aids turned off.  All I want to hear is the gyoji and the crowd reactions .  The commentary is a major distraction, especially if I can understand it.

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20 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Apologies.  Reading some of the posts above, there were definitely some surprised people.  

I was surprised.  The main reason being that he was still in contention for yusho.  If he didn't have thousands of yusho already, he'd probably dragged his butt into the ring.  But what did he have to prove?  Kyujo seems to be a reasonably wise decision given the circumstances.  But most of us didn't know the extent of his injuries, hence, the surprise.

Conspiracy theorist in me suspected that he was too embarrassed to continue after losing 3 in a row against hobbling Mita, always beaten Tama, and diminutive Tko.

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33 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Apologies.  Reading some of the posts above, there were definitely some surprised people.  

From day 1, I was reading his body language and efforts as saying he didn't really want to be there.  My surprise was that he lasted as long as he did.

 

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7 hours ago, Nantonoyama said:

It that even precedented? Isn't that unfair to Takakeisho in case he has to be involved in a kettei-sen (less time to recover, ok, it is only one bout, and Tamawashi is one bout away only, but yet...)

In 1972 the musubi-no-ichiban maegashira was a yusho contender, none of them are today, that might have motivated this decision

Keep in mind that older torikumi lists on the DB may be reconstructed from hoshitori based on the standard scheduling rules, so it's possible that they've done something similar in the past and we just don't have the data to know about it.

Edited by Asashosakari
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1 hour ago, Asashosakari said:

Keep in mind that older torikumi lists on the DB may be reconstructed from hoshitori based on the standard scheduling rules, so it's possible that they've done something similar in the past and we just don't have the data to know about it.

That's true. The torikumi sometimes have sources day by day, in that case it's most likely 100% correct. Often I had only the hoshitori-hyo as source, here the torikumi is simply reconstructed going by standard rules.

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3 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Well, Hakuho just registered three straight losses for the first time as a Yokozuna.

 

You are wrong about that. link, link, link and link

Unfortunately, it's not the only thing you seem to be wrong about, IMHO.

I guess it's OK to compare Hakuho and Kisenosato, but putting them on the same level is a crime.

 

With Kisenosato singing with the fat lady, this has become the most political basho since they dragged the Kid over the line two years ago. That's mildly irritating. Even more so with all the insta-revisionism going on here.

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2 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

You are wrong about that. link, link, link and link

Unfortunately, it's not the only thing you seem to be wrong about, IMHO.

Thanks (I'm out of reactions) for fact checking that.  My bad.  I was going by what I thought I had heard when all the attention was focused on Kise's losing record.

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thanks for remaining natsu 2012, it seems it was a weird basho !

 

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On 22/01/2019 at 08:52, robnplunder said:

It's all my fault.

  • Before the basho, I secretly hoped Takanoiwa to start an Ozeki run.  ---> Intai.
  • Then, I wished Kise to do well ---> Intai
  •  I fell back to my favorite, Mita ---> Kyujo
  • I wished Ura to KK at the least -> Injured
  • I posted good stuff about Chiyonokuni ---> Injured
  • <snip>
  • ... then finally Kotoyuki whom I often laughed at his falling into the crowd
  • I wish Hak to go zensho yusho.   There!   He will now go kyujo -> intai for sure. 

When you are right, you are right.  (Applauding...):'-(

Edited by Amamaniac

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39 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

You are wrong about that. link, link, link and link

Unfortunately, it's not the only thing you seem to be wrong about, IMHO.

 

34 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Thanks (I'm out of reactions) for fact checking that.  My bad.  I was going by what I thought I had heard when all the attention was focused on Kise's losing record.

Amamaniac, speaking as the guy who spent the whole year of 2016 dorking about on this very forum telling everyone and their dog that Kisenosato will never get a yusho and will never become yokozuna, and seeing how people still haven't given me any significant grief over it, my takeaway is that if you provide false historical information, it's better for you if said information concerns the future and not the past. 

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40 minutes ago, yorikiried by fate said:

You are wrong about that. link, link, link and link

Unfortunately, it's not the only thing you seem to be wrong about, IMHO.

I guess it's OK to compare Hakuho and Kisenosato, but putting them on the same level is a crime.

 

With Kisenosato singing with the fat lady, this has become the most political basho since they dragged the Kid over the line two years ago. That's mildly irritating. Even more so with all the insta-revisionism going on here.

That one's easy to check, and fun!  Just get Hakuho up on the db and look for three black dots in a row:

2007.7 (his first as a Yokozuna)

2012.5

2014.3

2015.9 (counting the fusen)

2015.11

2018.1 (w/ fusen)

2019.1 (this one)

Incidentally, if you want a visual explanation of Hakuho's GOAT-ness, look at the db from 2007 - present.

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11 minutes ago, Atenzan said:
50 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Thanks (I'm out of reactions) for fact checking that.  My bad.  I was going by what I thought I had heard when all the attention was focused on Kise's losing record.

Amamaniac, speaking as the guy who spent the whole year of 2016 dorking about on this very forum telling everyone and their dog that Kisenosato will never get a yusho and will never become yokozuna, and seeing how people still haven't given me any significant grief over it, my takeaway is that if you provide false historical information, it's better for you if said information concerns the future and not the past. 

(Laughing...) 

How about this?  Okuniasahi will never get a Makuuchi yusho, nor will he become the 73rd Yokozuna!  There.  I said it first!

Edited by Amamaniac

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12 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

(Laughing...) 

How about this?  Okuniasahi will never get a Makuuchi yusho, nor will he become the 73rd Yokozuna!  There.  I said it first!

Gee, I don't know; the guy was in Sd this time four years ago ... so was Ryuden, and look where he is now ... this sounds like an ideal penny-stock candidate to me.(Beingthrowntomatoesat...)

Edited by Yamanashi

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Before senshuraku I would like to talk about Abi.

He arrived at Makuuchi like a wave, pushing forward with almost unstoppable force but then retiring backwards after reaching a peak. Although he continues to be a one-trick-pony in this basho I have seen him a more wise rishiki. He has learned to pause in the middle of the battle and he is not as eager to push at all costs as before. If he keeps perfecting his style and developing his awareness, he could stay in Makuuchi for a long time, and I will be happy to root for him.

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13 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Gee, I don't know; the guy was in Sd this time four years ago ... so was Ryuden, and look where he is now ... this sounds like an ideal penny-stock candidate to me.

Excellent point!  I wish I had you as my stock broker. (Bow...)

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9 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

I think once you get used to the accent, he is a witty guy that knows his sumo. I enjoyed him. The guy I enjoyed the most after being able to hear the English side for the first time was Murray. I did not not enjoy any of them, actually. How times change. A few years back we would have given our right arm for a reasonable  quality feed, let alone English commentary. 

I agree with you about the commentator. DS was very informative, from my perspective, and interesting. I know that accent is almost a relic from s bygone age, but that shouldn’t completely discount what he says. 

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So I checked the yusho list, this will be the first time since 2000 that the yusho has been won consecutively by rikishi ranked sekiwake and below.

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5 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Hakuho going kyujo surprised most of us.  After his loss on day 13, the possibility of Hakuho withdrawing crossed my mind, but I told myself that he was not visibly injured and the Kyokai would definitely want one Yokozuna in the ring to give the tournament some level of validity (I'm not saying all the other great rikishi in the Top Division aren't valid, only that Yokozunas are more highly respected) and give the fans their daily dohyoiri fix.

The report given in the NHK English commentary was that Hakuho injured his right knee during his day 4 bout against Hokutofuji.  So the toe issue was a non-issue.  Supposedly, Hakuho claimed that the pain from the injury was preventing him from sleeping.  I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, and while I do believe him, I can't help but question his upbeat attitude as late as day 13, and how in doing all those shiko (including those in the dohyoiri shiki) he never once looked to be in any pain.  I know pros hide their injuries, so maybe it was that ... or some sweet pain medication.

But Hakuho, I am sad to say, suddenly is looking a lot like our friend Kisenosato.  A big deal was made when Kisenosato started the tournament with three straight contested-bout losses.  In fact, that (and the six losses from Kyushu) led him to retire.  Well, Hakuho just registered three straight losses for the first fourth time as a Yokozuna, but he probably wanted to avoid an embarrassing four straight in one tournament.  And just for the sake of effect, if we go back to September 2017, Hakuho has dropped out of six of nine of his last tournaments.  That is almost as bad as Kisenosato.  Whatever arguments there are to dismiss the comparison above, the bottom line is that things are definitely not going well for Hakuho at this stage in his career.  

If anyone can turn things around, Hakuho is probably that man.  But ...

(edited thanks to yorikiried by fate)

 

 

I think you’re missing a significant difference between Kisenosato’s and Hakuhō’s most recent 9 basho. Hakuho won two of the three basho he completed, including a zensho yusho. 

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17 minutes ago, Michishige said:

I agree with you about the commentator. DS was very informative, from my perspective, and interesting. I know that accent is almost a relic from s bygone age, but that shouldn’t completely discount what he says. 

He always seems to be paired with Hiro (at least on the few times I've caught him). For me, that combination doesn't seem to work and that was part of my problem.

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3 minutes ago, Sakura said:

He always seems to be paired with Hiro (at least on the few times I've caught him). For me, that combination doesn't seem to work and that was part of my problem.

I think that’s fair, looking back. It does feel a bit like he overwhelms Hiro with banter. And I’m a relative newcomer to watching Sumo (3 years), so perhaps his style is more appealing to me than to others. 

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4 hours ago, Atenzan said:

 

Amamaniac, speaking as the guy who spent the whole year of 2016 dorking about on this very forum telling everyone and their dog that Kisenosato will never get a yusho and will never become yokozuna, and seeing how people still haven't given me any significant grief over it, my takeaway is that if you provide false historical information, it's better for you if said information concerns the future and not the past. 

I also did something similar in stating categorically that Kise would never get his head together enough to do either...

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Wow, Endo has lost to Tama 9 straight times.  That just means Endo is long overdue to beat Tamawashi.     I'd still give Tamawashi a slight edge, this being most likely the only chance at yusho.  I give Takakeisho a definite edge against Goeido.   The former is a rising star getting better with every basho, and the latter is definitely on his way down barely hanging on to his Ozeki rank, basho after basho.   TKO to beat Tama in the playoff.   For everyone's info, my prediction has been like a weather forecast.   I get it about 50% right ;-)

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