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Hatsu Basho 2019 Discussion [SPOILERS]

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4 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

A special rijikai is to be convened tomorrow after the bouts and will address Takakeishou’s promotion, yes or no. "I think we are going to hear a lot of views. I would like to hear everyone's view," said Ounomatsu head of judging department man. Regarding today's bout, Ounomatsu said this:"It was perfect sumo (Ooohh..just what David said 4 times on TV today..). He was calm."

Oh, did he follow the Japanese announcer in that? I was able to bail on Abema and mbovo and get back to local NHK. A profound relief.

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On the Japanese side of the broadcast, ex-Ounokuni was not happy about Hakuhou's kyujo and was surprisingly vocal about it. "He was looking good a few days ago, much later than the day 4 injury that was mentioned. He had three days to go, he could have gone the distance. He was in the yusho race. I don't get this.." he said.

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1 minute ago, Otokonoyama said:

Oh, did he follow the Japanese announcer in that? I was able to bail on Abema and mbovo and get back to local NHK. A profound relief.

Probably not, but maybe Ounomatsu followed him..

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2 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

We used to have that on the fuzzy wuzzy free Kyokai feed, remember

Of course I remember.... But I am hoping for the sound with HD-quality-pics... Can go without fuzzy wuzzy 

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7 hours ago, robnplunder said:

 

Agreed.  Most Makuuchi rikishi has the similar heart: Chiyonokuni, Shohozan, Hokutofuji to name a few.    I think that's what made them to rise up to the Makuuchi division.  On the other side, yes,  Ichinojo is (at least appears to be) lacking that quality.  He made to Makuuchi on sheer size and strength.   If he wasn't built like Mt. Fuji, he wouldn't be in competitive sport as a pro.  

Agreed. Takakeisho has determination and confidence and this has brought him to that high level. Earlier the reporter said we see a shift that the new guys who have come up in the makuuchi and sanyaku division are young and got some experience. It will be exciting to see not only Sunday but this year it might be possible that Takakeisho will become Ozeki, he has already 33 wins in three consecutive tournaments. Other young rikishi we might also see become Ozeki and maybe this year or next year we might see a new yokozuna.

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10 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

A special rijikai is to be convened tomorrow after the bouts and will address Takakeishou’s promotion, yes or no. "I think we are going to hear a lot of views. I would like to hear everyone's view," said Ounomatsu head of judging department man. Regarding today's bout, Ounomatsu said this:"It was perfect sumo (Ooohh..just what David said 4 times on TV today..). He was calm."

In light of the same Ounomatsu bigman man's comments from last (Japanese time) night that he wanted Takakeishou to "show him his sumo in the final 2 days" when asked about his Ozeki promotion, I find it likely that one very influential vote is halfway in the "yes" column already. 

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1 minute ago, Atenzan said:

In light of the same Ounomatsu bigman man's comments from last (Japanese time) night that he wanted Takakeishou to "show him his sumo in the final 2 days" when asked about his Ozeki promotion, I find it likely that one very influential vote is halfway in the "yes" column already. 

And here you were, saying he'll make it in ten bashos.. 

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2 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

And here you were, saying he'll make it in ten bashos.. 

If he gets promoted now and demoted after eight bashos at Ozeki, you can eat a kippah and I'll eat a visor - combined that's a full hat. 

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1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

I think once you get used to the accent, he is a witty guy that knows his sumo. 

I did like that he was able to tone down Hiro's absolutes.

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52 minutes ago, Gernobono said:

We used to have that on the fuzzy wuzzy free Kyokai feed, remember 

There was a fuzzy wuzzy feed? Wow....wish I knew. Back in the day I used to get my sumo news badly translated and secondhand from a Japanese member of a birding forum. Those were the days... (Noddingyes...)(Laughing...)

(Damn I wish I knew about this forum years ago)

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So as it stands now, Takakeisho will at least get the jun yusho. That's another plus in his favor for the ozeki promotion. One of the worries I have though is that his record has not been that great against rikishi in the upper ranks like Mitakeumi, Takayasu,  and Goeido, much less the remaining yokozunas. This raises the question whether he is really ozeki material. But maybe Takakeisho has entered a new level in his sumo and his entire past record may not be the most appropriate basis for a decision.  But going by the last three bashos, including this one, he only has one win but seven losses against the three guys I mentioned. But it would be hard not to promote him as it stands now based on his performance of at least 33 wins, one yusho, and at least one jun yusho, and beating two yokozunas. What do you all think?

Edited by wys
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Absolutely he should get the nod...33 wins 1 yusho,  (minimum) 1 jun-yusho... Damm that's Yokozuna numbers ! Give him what he earned and let him worry about keeping it !! 

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7 minutes ago, wys said:

So as it stands now, Takakeisho will at least get the jun yusho. That's another plus in his favor for the ozeki promotion. One of the worries I have though is that his record has not been that great against rikishi in the upper ranks like Mitakeumi, Takayasu,  and Goeido, much less the remaining yokozunas. This raises the question whether he is really ozeki material. But maybe Takakeisho has entered a new level in his sumo and his entire past record may not be the most appropriate basis for a decision.  But going by the last three bashos, including this one, he only has one win but eight losses against the three guys I mentioned. But it would be hard not to promote him as it stands now based on his performance of at least 33 wins, one yusho, and at least one jun yusho, and beating two yokozunas. What do you all think?

Mathematically it’s still possible that he could share the jun-yusho with Kaisei, Endo and Abi, all fighting from M8-10. If that happens, the jun-yusho could be devalued slightly in the eyes of the more skeptical oyakata. 

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7 hours ago, Sakura said:

He is definitely my least favourite of all NHK English language commentators.

You got to give it to him though. He called the Takakeisho-Okinoumi match perfectly.

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2 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Mathematically it’s still possible that he could share the jun-yusho with Kaisei, Endo and Abi, all fighting from M8-10. If that happens, the jun-yusho could be devalued slightly in the eyes of the more skeptical oyakata. 

But then again, Takakeisho also faced higher-ranked opponents on average. I can't wait to hear their decision.

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13 minutes ago, wys said:

You got to give it to him though. He called the Takakeisho-Okinoumi match perfectly.

There was only one player in Sekitoto who didn't.

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1 hour ago, Kintamayama said:

We used to have that on the fuzzy wuzzy free Kyokai feed, remember??

Oh man, I remember that.  That tiny squinty little screen that would never enlarge....

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Regarding Mitakeumi going out for day 14:  the only "conspiracy theory" item that caught my eye was the big stack of last-bout kensho that Takayasu picked up.  That wouldn't have happened if Mitakeumi had withdrawn, would it?

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1 hour ago, Akōgyokuseki said:

There was a fuzzy wuzzy feed? Wow....wish I knew. Back in the day I used to get my sumo news badly translated and secondhand from a Japanese member of a birding forum. Those were the days... (Noddingyes...)(Laughing...)

(Damn I wish I knew about this forum years ago)

Wait, you're a birder too? That would make two Geordie birding and sumo enthusiasts on this forum!

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21 minutes ago, Yamanashi said:

Regarding Mitakeumi going out for day 14:  the only "conspiracy theory" item that caught my eye was the big stack of last-bout kensho that Takayasu picked up.  That wouldn't have happened if Mitakeumi had withdrawn, would it?

Good point, I guess. Especially considering how gently Takayasu walked Mitakeumi out. Do you think they split?

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36 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Good point, I guess. Especially considering how gently Takayasu walked Mitakeumi out. Do you think they split?

I think that Mitakeumi guaranteeing Takayasu a pay day (53 kensho) helped soften the pain that Takayasu must have felt after their last bout back in November.  In that bout, Mita only took home 44 kensho.

Edited by Amamaniac

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9 hours ago, Bumpkin said:
9 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

What is Mitakeumi doing turning up today? He has nothing to fight for. His KK is secured and either there's no room for promotion or there is and it's his anyway.

Fighting spirit.

I think you can throw the Outstanding Performance Prize into the mix, especially since he upset all three Yokozunas in this tournament.  I'm not sure what to expect from the Sansho meeting, but if Mitakeumi had racked up say 11 wins, I think he could well be walking away with two or more special prizes.  Given that he may end up with just 8 (I know, 8 wins in 11 contested bouts is impressive, especially since in the last five, he was fighting injured), I fear he might just get one Special Prize.  If it were up to out friend DS, he'd get all three!  (What a nice guy!)

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Hakuho going kyujo surprised most of us.  After his loss on day 13, the possibility of Hakuho withdrawing crossed my mind, but I told myself that he was not visibly injured and the Kyokai would definitely want one Yokozuna in the ring to give the tournament some level of validity (I'm not saying all the other great rikishi in the Top Division aren't valid, only that Yokozunas are more highly respected) and give the fans their daily dohyoiri fix.

The report given in the NHK English commentary was that Hakuho injured his right knee during his day 4 bout against Hokutofuji.  So the toe issue was a non-issue.  Supposedly, Hakuho claimed that the pain from the injury was preventing him from sleeping.  I want to give him the benefit of the doubt, and while I do believe him, I can't help but question his upbeat attitude as late as day 13, and how in doing all those shiko (including those in the dohyoiri shiki) he never once looked to be in any pain.  I know pros hide their injuries, so maybe it was that ... or some sweet pain medication.

But Hakuho, I am sad to say, suddenly is looking a lot like our friend Kisenosato.  A big deal was made when Kisenosato started the tournament with three straight contested-bout losses.  In fact, that (and the six losses from Kyushu) led him to retire.  Well, Hakuho just registered three straight losses for the first fourth time as a Yokozuna, but he probably wanted to avoid an embarrassing four straight in one tournament.  And just for the sake of effect, if we go back to September 2017, Hakuho has dropped out of six of nine of his last tournaments.  That is almost as bad as Kisenosato.  Whatever arguments there are to dismiss the comparison above, the bottom line is that things are definitely not going well for Hakuho at this stage in his career.  

If anyone can turn things around, Hakuho is probably that man.  But ...

(edited thanks to yorikiried by fate)

 

 

Edited by Amamaniac
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5 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Hakuho going kyujo surprised most of us.  

Who is "most of us"?

The people i was talking to were surprised he was fighting day 13...

And I was also expecting him to be kyujo for day 13 already

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