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Hatsu Basho 2019 Discussion [SPOILERS]

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3 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

What's up with the need to look for reasons why Hakuhou loses? He loses because he is no longer 28. It's life. He simply isn't as strong as he used to be. He is human. He has had a poor basho from day 1, against lesser opponents. Everyone saw that. It's natural that he would have a more difficult time with the guys he eventually lost to, a half Mitakeumi notwithstanding than against his opposition the first week. He was lucky to not lose at least three of his first 7. It was discussed here at length. Granted, he could be harboring an injury, but to me he looks much less focused. His body looks like it's lost some muscle. We will never know the full truth and can only speculate, but I think he is losing to time.

Absolutely.  A fraction of second slow is reasonable for his age.   33 years old body reacts differently when it was 28.   Experience, and intimidation will only go so far. 

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1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

Also, if Tamawashi could manage a yusho or jun-yusho, arguably that’d put him on an Ozeki run. Not a strong prospect as his 9-6 last time was from M2, but also not entirely out of the question. He’s come from nowhere this basho with all the attention on Kise, the crap Ozeki and Takakeisho’s promotion bid. 

Well he'd smash the record for oldest promotion to ozeki post-1958 if he made it. This is someone who didn't even make sanyaku until 2015. Talk about a late bloomer.

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2 hours ago, Michishige said:

It’s natural to speculate about unusual things. You’re clearly right that he hasn’t looked good throughout the basho. That’s rather new for Hakuho and it invites speculation. Besides...speculating about that is less depressing than contemplating the pile of injuries to popular rikishi. 

I was referring to the tin foil hats ala "he lost so the basho would be more interesting" crap.

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1 hour ago, Philioyamfugi said:

https://youtu.be/0TZb3AHiEpo?t=285

The Hakahou toe dipping is shown on this video..for those interested 

For anyone still mystified, it's for grip. Barefoot athletes do it all over the place, you'll see it in MMA every match from both fighters.

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7 minutes ago, neonbelly said:

For anyone still mystified, it's for grip. Barefoot athletes do it all over the place, you'll see it in MMA every match from both fighters.

You can see a wet spot on both east and west....maybe the rikishi can request ?

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5 hours ago, John Gunning said:

Some day 12 shots

The legend at the bottom says "2018" instead of "2019". Twice.

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On 22/01/2019 at 12:04, Bumpkin said:

S1w Tamawashi (8-2) could win the Hatsu yusho. Y1w Hakuho (10-0) is not unbeatable. They will, probably, meet on Day 12. Hakuho has to face K1w Mitakeumi (5-2-3) on Day 11 and, probably, S1e Takakeisho (7-3) on Day 13, 01w Goeido (4-6) on Day 14 and O1e Takayasu (5-5) on Day 15. Tamawashi has to face M4e Kotoshogiku (4-6) on Day 11 and, probably, M2w Hokutofuji (6-4), M4w Okinoumi (6-4) and K1 Myogiryu (4-6). We shall see.

We  shall see, indeed. What a difference 2 days make.

Y1w Hokuho (10-2) is now in a must-win scenario against S1e Takakeisho (9-3). He has O1w Goeido (6-6) on Day 14 and O1e Takayasu (7-5) on Day 15.

S1w Tamawashi (10-2) has M2w Hokutofuji (7-5) on Day 13. Unknown who he will face on Days 14 and 15. He could face either K1e Myogiryu (5-7) or M4w Okinoumi (6-6) or M5e Aoiyama (6-6) or M8e Kaisei (8-4) or M9w Endo (8-4).

Edited by Bumpkin

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2 hours ago, Rocks said:

Very interesting matches Day 13. Hakuho has not lost  3 in a row in a the 2nd half of a basho, in other words basho he finished, in over 3 years. He hasn't lost 3 in a row to non Y/Os in a basho he has finished in 6 1/2 years and that was the only time that had occurred since he became Ozeki.  A Takakeisho victory tonight could be a real watershed moment.

Given that he only won one championship in 2018 for the first time in his Yokozuna career, and failed to show up in the ring for 53/90 (59%) of scheduled bouts in 2018, I definitely would not be surprised if Hakuho loses 3 straight.  Hakuho is determined to remain in sumo until at least 2020, if not till he is about 36 years old.  But if he lets the championship of this tournament slip through his fingers, it may rock his resolve.  

We've lost Harumafuji and Kisenosato, and Kakuryu and Hakuho may just be close behind...  (Curse you Takanoiwa, you evil genius.)

Edited by Amamaniac

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6 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Given that he only won one championship in 2018 for the first time in his Yokozuna career, and failed to show up in the ring for 53/90 (59%) of scheduled bouts in 2018, I definitely would not be surprised if Hakuho loses 3 straight.  Hakuho is determined to remain in sumo until at least 2020, if not till he is about 36 years old.  But if he lets the championship of this tournament slip through his fingers, it may rock his resolve.  

We've lost Harumafuji and Kisenosato, and Kakuryu and Hakuho may just be close behind...  (Curse you Takanoiwa, you evil genius.)

Their time will come, we still have a bunch of great prospects for the future anyway. Until 2020 we may have a new Yokozuna and we will surely have new Ozeki so the future of sumo is looking good imo.

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Takakeisho "bounced" back from his day 10 loss to Takayasu with two straight hard-fought wins. What I admire about this young sekitori is that he's like a Timex watch, i.e., "takes a licking and keeps on ticking".  His bout against Hokutofuji bordered on brutal with all the head buts, and his tsuppari battle with Kotoshogiku looked only mildly less devastating.  Takakeisho knows what he is capable of and simply climbs up on the ring each day and gives it his all.  He never complains and takes every loss in stride.  He may not be the most warm and personable wrestler in the Top Division, but his determination and mature behaviour is growing on me.  It is easy to like wrestlers like Mitakeumi, but Takakeisho deserves respect ... no matter how this tournament turns out for him.

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Takakeisho has a bright future, he is still 22 made his makuuchi debut 13 basho ago,  9 (including the honbasho) of the 13 were 9+ wins kk, only 4 mk when reaching a wall, he has been M1 or higher in 6 of the 13 basho, and has a yusho, aJun-Yusho, 3 Shukun-Sho, 2 Kanto-Sho, 3 Kinboshi so far under his belt. I think he is one of the best japanese hopes in a while. If he doesn't manage to become Ozeki this time, I'm sure he'll manage to soon enough.

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5 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

Takakeisho has a bright future, he is still 22 made his makuuchi debut 13 basho ago,  9 (including the honbasho) of the 13 were 9+ wins kk, only 4 mk when reaching a wall, he has been M1 or higher in 6 of the 13 basho, and has a yusho, aJun-Yusho, 3 Shukun-Sho, 2 Kanto-Sho, 3 Kinboshi so far under his belt. I think he is one of the best japanese hopes in a while. If he doesn't manage to become Ozeki this time, I'm sure he'll manage to soon enough.

Exactly. That's what I was telling Kintamayama, which was published in the predictions thread and became the hat debate- the shukun-sho are a very nice historical predictor of ozekihood, as is the fact that he's *the* youngest makuuchi rikishi. If I may be even more bold, maybe to the extent of stupidity, I dare say that if and when he learns to hold his own at the belt, he'll become the single strongest candidate for next 20-yusho winner. 

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6 minutes ago, Atenzan said:

Exactly. That's what I was telling Kintamayama, which was published in the predictions thread and became the hat debate- the shukun-sho are a very nice historical predictor of ozekihood, as is the fact that he's *the* youngest makuuchi rikishi. If I may be even more bold, maybe to the extent of stupidity, I dare say that if and when he learns to hold his own at the belt, he'll become the single strongest candidate for next 20-yusho winner.  

Agreed ! Kintamayama said it in one of his videos (day 6- Takakeisho's loss to Tochiozan), his weakness right now is that he can't do much when the fight becomes a belt batlle, and I think Takakeisho knows that well. He uses his low size and his moving up and down attack to maintain the distance and keep his momentum. I think he has room for improvement on the belt for sure but he his quite small and has very short arms so will it be enough to get good at it ? Surely he can become good enough to save his life on the belt when plan A doesn't work but I don't really think his body is made to be a viable yotsu guy. We'll see !

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He is currently a one-horse "next ozeki".  It remains to be seen how he adapts when familiarity and/or injury inevitably rein in that horse.

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If Lil Sato beats the Hak today on the belt i will call; next dai zuna!

My concern about him is the way he engages himself in brutal bouts...He is always with face bruises and fat lips...A person have a limited amount of glovesless slaps in the head to take. Even our beloved little ball of rage. learn some belt its a must.

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59 minutes ago, Rainoyama said:

Agreed ! Kintamayama said it in one of his videos (day 6- Takakeisho's loss to Tochiozan), his weakness right now is that he can't do much when the fight becomes a belt batlle, and I think Takakeisho knows that well

On the other hand, Kotoshogiku demonstrated in his bout against Takakeisho that he is completely clueless when he needs to do oshi.

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17 hours ago, Fujisan said:

Yes I can clarify that too.......

Off topic.....

Which part of the N.E is that Autotroph?

You don't have be exact but I was wondering that's all.....

I was born, raised, and lived most of my life in Newcastle until recently coming to Canada to work. I've been confusing the locals with my mealtime terminology ever since.

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3 hours ago, Atenzan said:

if and when he learns to hold his own at the belt, he'll become the single strongest candidate for next 20-yusho winner. 

How about if he doesn't learn to hold his own at the belt?  In my opinion, he will never be able to do rely on yotsu-zumo, mainly because his arms are simply too short.  I think he realises that shortcoming (pun not really intended), and as a result he is focused on oshi-zumo in order to develop that skill to the maximum level.  Let's see how far up the banzuke he gets.  But as suggested in my earlier posts, I agree with you that he will reach Ozeki status.  

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8 hours ago, Philioyamfugi said:

https://youtu.be/0TZb3AHiEpo?t=285

The Hakahou toe dipping is shown on this video..for those interested 

Japan and it's weird fetishes...

 

I hope for play-off where Hakuho monsters Tamawashi.

Nice HNH from Mitakeumi. The tachiai-*WHAP* was fantastic.

 Mon Aminishiki...La garde meurt, mais se ne rends pas...

Edited by Benihana

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13 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

No doubt! My arthritic knees would buckle if I tried to push Hattorizakura

I think you grossly over-estimate Hattorizakura. Just saying "rawr" at the tachi-ai would push him back a good meter or two.

On the "Hakuho toe-dipping" thing, he's far from the only rikishi who does this. I've always assumed it's for extra traction.

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14 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Mitakeumi - Hakuho was after 67 years again a win by a kyujo returner vs. a yokozuna. http://www.tv-tokyo.co.jp/sports/articles/2019/01/003467.html

Does that article strictly refer to kyujo rikishi who were in their first bout back, or to anybody who had been kyujo earlier in the basho?

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40 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

How about if he doesn't learn to hold his own at the belt?  In my opinion, he will never be able to do rely on yotsu-zumo, mainly because his arms are simply too short.  I think he realises that shortcoming (pun not really intended), and as a result he is focused on oshi-zumo in order to develop that skill to the maximum level.  Let's see how far up the banzuke he gets.  But as suggested in my earlier posts, I agree with you that he will reach Ozeki status.  

I’ve said this before, but I wish ‘reach’ was one of the stats they measured. Takakeisho’s doesn’t seem very long, whereas Tochinoshin is basically a four-legged animal. Somehow I can’t see Takakeisho getting his stumpy little arms down and over his aite’s shoulders to grip the belt the way the latter often does.

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2 hours ago, autotroph said:

I was born, raised, and lived most of my life in Newcastle until recently coming to Canada to work. I've been confusing the locals with my mealtime terminology ever since.

Wow! Another Geordie!! Welcome. I too was born and bred in Newcastle, but have been in Canada since 1973.

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12 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

He has had a poor basho from day 1, against lesser opponents. Everyone saw that.

First of all, thank you for doing the hard work of posting the bouts every day. You are a big reason I recently started following sumo.

But what should I have been looking for to see that Hak had a poor basho when he started it 10-0? Was it that he seemed to escape in a few of the early matches? Or was it that he simply seemed to expend more effort than a yokozuna should against opponents with those ranks? I guess I thought I was seeing skill, control, and wiliness; but better eyes were seeing weakness.

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3 hours ago, Jabbamaru said:

If Lil Sato beats the Hak today on the belt i will call; next dai zuna!

My concern about him is the way he engages himself in brutal bouts...He is always with face bruises and fat lips...A person have a limited amount of glovesless slaps in the head to take. Even our beloved little ball of rage. learn some belt its a must.

He can't/won't learn the belt game for two main reasons.  One, his arms too short to be effective against taller opponents (vast majority of them).   Two, against vast majority of his opponents, his current game is pretty effective.    

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