Hatsu Basho 2019 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Amamaniac 1,970]

2 minutes ago, Morty said:

Mitakeumi can be a bit erratic but even injured he is too good to underestimate. If Hak did so then he didn't give his opponent the respect he deserved. Or maybe Mitakeumi just beat him fair and square?

You are absolutely right.  I admit to neglecting the "fair and square victory" argument, and like you I feel Mitakeumi is "too good to underestimate".

So, an injured Mitakeumi can beat a healthy Hakuho.  Some fans (like me) just like to try and find excuses for the unexpected, I guess.  But that's sumo.  Sometimes it's just a matter of who did better sumo in the moment.

[Eikokurai 3,413]

Just now, Morty said:

Sure but they stay out all night drinking beer and sake with sponsors during the basho, and for Yago in his first Makuuchi basho there will have been a few sleepless nights and lots of nervous energy in the first week. The train in the morning because its expected of them but maybe they shouldn't? I don't know, but I looked at him and my first thought was "he looks buggered"

Ha, that’s true. I was forgetting this is Japan and that there are always extra-curricular activities.

[Morty 1,393]

1 minute ago, Amamaniac said:

You are absolutely right.  I admit to neglecting the "fair and square victory" argument, and like you I feel Mitakeumi is "too good to underestimate".

So, an injured Mitakeumi can beat a healthy Hakuho.  Some fans (like me) just like to try and find excuses for the unexpected, I guess.  But that's sumo.  Sometimes it's just a matter of who did better sumo in the moment.

I wouldn't blame you, Hak is so godlike sometimes who wouldn't look for excuses when he loses 

[Morty 1,393]

Takakeisho is so freaking powerful with those shoves of his. Even the heaviest guys go backwards. I feel like if Chiyotairyu trusted his sumo more he could do the same. He was like that at the start, and sometimes still is, but ever since he added the pull down to his repertoire he has lost some of what Takakeisho has. I often look at Chiyotairyu and wonder how a rikishi so powerful and so experienced can sometimes look so clueless...

[yorikiried by fate 1,765]

Typical Hakuho bout. Whenever the yusho race becomes too onesided, his concentration slips and he drops a bout. He should really work on that with some kind of mental coach. Or at least some psychologist.

[Amamaniac 1,970]

Just watched the Gagamaru v. Enho link posted above by #Akōgyokuseki, and aside from the fact that Enho put out another amazing effort and was rewarded with a literally "crushing" defeat, I was also interested to see that Abema TV was billing the final bout of the day between Mitakeumi and Hakuho as a ガチンコ対決 or "pinball (pachinko) straight-up confrontation".  Makes me wonder what the odds for a Mitakeumi win were in the gambling world.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Amamaniac

[since_94 606]

19 hours ago, kuroimori said:

After many careful reviews, it looks like Hoshoryu's knee bumps into Ura's knee when he was falling down on him. I did not see any weird twist of Ura's knee prior or during the fall.

In any case, this is devastating for Ura. I hoped that the rise of Hoshoryu did not come at such a high toll.

Just like that. So much for all those long, painful and tedious hours of rehab. I can't even imagine his frustration and disappointment

[since_94 606]

59 minutes ago, Morty said:

Mitakeumi can be a bit erratic but even injured he is too good to underestimate. If Hak did so then he didn't give his opponent the respect he deserved. Or maybe Mitakeumi just beat him fair and square?

When Mitakeumi came out of the Kokugikan tonight it caused quite a buzz and there was a coterie of photographers and well-wishers following him all the way to his ride. He'll be page one news tomorrow for sure

[Amamaniac 1,970]

14 minutes ago, since_94 said:

When Mitakeumi came out of the Kokugikan tonight it caused quite a buzz and there was a coterie of photographers and well-wishers following him all the way to his ride.

You make it sound as though you were at the Kokugikan today.  If so, did you notice whether or not Hakuho did his toe-dipping ritual?  The NHK broadcast keeps cutting away, so I have yet to see it.  My wacky theory contribution of the tournament is: maybe Hakuho lost to Mitakeumi because he forgot to dip his toes in power water!  LOL

Edited January 23, 2019 by Amamaniac

[Akinomaki 34,359]

6 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Hoshoryu reacts quickly against the henka and then makes a nice outside leg trip. Kachikoshi secured. Definitely shades of ol' Uncle Dagvadorj there.

The press titles "He surpassed his uncle" with this his 6th kachi-koshi in a row since debut - Asashoryu had a 3-4 makekoshi in his 6th basho http://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201901230000356.html

but he then was already at ms12 - Hoshoryu is ms21, with a meager 4-3 on the way, while his uncle always had 6 or 7 wins.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Just watched the Gagamaru v. Enho link posted above by #Akōgyokuseki, and aside from the fact that Enho put out another amazing effort and was rewarded with a literally "crushing" defeat, I was also interested to see that Abema TV was billing the final bout of the day between Mitakeumi and Hakuho as a ガチンコ対決 or "pinball confrontation".  Makes me wonder what the odds for a Mitakeumi win were in the gambling world.

Channeling the great Kintamayama? 

Edited January 23, 2019 by Otokonoyama

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

8 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

You make it sound as though you were at the Kokugikan today.  If so, did you notice whether or not Hakuho did his toe-dipping ritual?  The NHK broadcast keeps cutting away, so I have yet to see it.  My wacky theory contribution of the tournament is: maybe Hakuho lost to Mitakeumi because he forgot to dip his toes in power water!  LOL

By juryo, it seems some water is sprinkled in all four corners, while it doesn't seem noticeable before that. There could be more to this...

[Jakusotsu 4,841]

3 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Typical Hakuho bout. Whenever the yusho race becomes too onesided, his concentration slips and he drops a bout. He should really work on that with some kind of mental coach. Or at least some psychologist.

Right! This guy will never ever win a single yusho, let alone zensho!

 

3 hours ago, Morty said:

Sure but they stay out all night drinking beer and sake with sponsors during the basho, and for Yago in his first Makuuchi basho there will have been a few sleepless nights and lots of nervous energy in the first week. They train in the morning because its expected of them but maybe they shouldn't? I don't know, but I looked at him and my first thought was "he looks buggered"

The morning train routine for Sekitori during the basho is more or less going through the motions - donning a mawashi hours after sunrise, taping several body parts, standing around looking bored, flexing some muscles, giving advice to the lowrankers, lending a chest once in a while,  and then dinner lunch - nothing serious. Perhaps nobody told Yago yet...

Edited January 23, 2019 by Jakusotsu
lunch, shmunch...

[Amamaniac 1,970]

9 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

The morning train routine for Sekitori during the basho is more or less going through the motions - donning a mawashi hours after sunrise, taping several body parts, standing around looking bored, flexing some muscles, giving advice to the lowrankers, lending a chest once in a while,  and then dinner - nothing serious.

I'm not sure if I like your version of a wrestler's typical tournament day or Mr. Gunning's :

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2019/01/18/sumo/sumo-101-wrestlers-typical-tournament-day/

But since we're on the subject, one of the English commentators recently remarked during this tournament that several of the younger gen of sekitori are less likely to party hard during basho.  Perhaps Hakuho is equally serious about his daily routine, and has set a good (?) example.  But I hear more and more about the 20th century stars (perhaps I should also include Asashoryu) who were able to perform despite late nights out drinking: the proverbial "men's men".

[Dwale 419]

Wow, Mitakeumi! While that was the outcome I hoped for in the match, I didn't expect it. Shoot, I'll drink to that one. Kanpai!

EDIT: Had this strange dream last night that I was Terunofuji searching for something in the woods. No idea why, I hadn't been thinking about him lately or anything.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Dwale
Forgot to add something

[Jakusotsu 4,841]

39 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I'm not sure if I like your version of a wrestler's typical tournament day or Mr. Gunning's :

I don't see any difference:

"Those men tend to get up later than usually and do only light training or stretching at the stable. They have time for lunch and a short nap before heading to the arena, often in a taxi or private car."

Edit: Apart from confusing "lunch" with "dinner" again - my bad!

Edited January 23, 2019 by Jakusotsu

[Amamaniac 1,970]

11 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

I don't see any difference:

Sorry.  I was focused on Morty's post...

[Dapeng 231]

5 hours ago, yorikiried by fate said:

Typical Hakuho bout. Whenever the yusho race becomes too onesided, his concentration slips and he drops a bout. He should really work on that with some kind of mental coach. Or at least some psychologist.

 If he does need some psychologist, he wouldn't have won 41 yusho. He might have underestimated Mitake, but more likely he was mukyrioku. You never know if a bout was mukyrioku, like those of Kisenosato's prebasho keiko bouts.

[autotroph 43]

2 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Edit: Apart from confusing "lunch" with "dinner" again - my bad!

In my neck of the woods (the North East of England) dinner means lunch, and tea means the evening meal.

[808morgan 789]

1 hour ago, Dapeng said:

 If he does need some psychologist, he wouldn't have won 41 yusho. He might have underestimated Mitake, but more likely he was mukyrioku. You never know if a bout was mukyrioku, like those of Kisenosato's prebasho keiko bouts.

If you watch in slow  mo Mita does some martial arts blocks and stuff like karate, it was a very quick and decisive set of blocks and then pushing forward. Hak looked totally surprised by that. 

Edited January 23, 2019 by 808morgan

[Benihana 1,717]

7 hours ago, Akōgyokuseki said:

Enho vs Gagamaru...

MISELET SUMO

Hansoku at 4:04

[Kintamayama 40,238]

10 hours ago, robnplunder said:

 Kintamayama san is wrong in predicting Takakeisho will MK.  

I shall gambarize and return stronger. Also, never pay attention to my nonsense analysis.

[Kintamayama 40,238]

8 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

I’ve always been skeptical about this. How much stamina does one really need to fight for ten seconds a day? Rikishi train for hours every morning so they can’t be completely without endurance. And they train exclusively to take part in 15-day basho, so that surely is what they condition themselves for.

In almost every single interview the guys give from day 12 upwards, they state they are tired, including Hakuhou. I tend to believe them.

[Kintamayama 40,238]

8 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

 I was also interested to see that Abema TV was billing the final bout of the day between Mitakeumi and Hakuho as a ガチンコ対決 or "pinball confrontation".  Makes me wonder what the odds for a Mitakeumi win were in the gambling world.

A simple case of wrong reading.ガチンコ means "honest" or straightforward",  the direct opposite of yaocho. You were thinking of パチンコ, the pinball game.

Edited January 23, 2019 by Kintamayama

[Thorbjarn 191]

40 minutes ago, Kintamayama said:

In almost every single interview the guys give from day 12 upwards, they state they are tired, including Hakuhou. I tend to believe them.

I'm completely with you.

I think it's quite obvious that the bouts put a physical toll on the fighters. Everyone is breathing heavily and looks sore. Also, competitions of any kind can be mentally exhausting. I've been totally spent just sitting in an office.