Sign in to follow this  
Hersheyama

Question Concerning Rank

Recommended Posts

Have a look at a real banzuke, and you will realize that "East" and "West" aren't theoretical concepts but indeed the side of the banzuke they are written on. So the uneven Ozeki (or Sekiwake or Komousubi) is written on the west side if there is an uneven number already above them. That rule doesn't count for the last Maegashira though. Well, since they are written in smaller script and there is a much bigger number of them anyway there's not a big need here. But the high ranks are small in number and written larger, so effort is made to even the number out on the left and right side.

Edited by Doitsuyama
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having a look back at the historical record to check out the bottom of the division (I'd thought they *had* evened it out at the bottom of the division at some point) I noticed a bunch of the early seventies banzuke have an odd number of rikishi in the makuuchi division overall.  What's up with that?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Makuuchi is limited to 42 wrestlers, doesn’t mean there has to be. I wasn’t around then, but I assume they either had someone retire at an inconvenient time for the banzuke writers, or they had no juryo rikishi they wanted to promote.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The size of Makuuchi and the other divisions has varied over time. As to why there used to be an odd number of rikishi in the top division? Who knows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Bumpkin said:

As to why there used to be an odd number of rikishi in the top division? Who knows.

Often someone on this forum (Holidayfeeling...)

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Basically, Tochinoshin has always been O2W because he has never performed at Ozeki level since he was promoted to the rank. He doesn't deserve to be on the East side.

The Goeido hatters will say differently, but numbers don't lie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 07/12/2018 at 16:06, Ryoshishokunin said:

Having a look back at the historical record to check out the bottom of the division (I'd thought they *had* evened it out at the bottom of the division at some point) I noticed a bunch of the early seventies banzuke have an odd number of rikishi in the makuuchi division overall.  What's up with that?

Nowadays Makuuchi is fixed to 42 rikishi (40 before that), but it used to be more flexible depending on needs for promotions/demotions/retirements etc.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎07‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 19:25, RPedro44 said:

Basically, Tochinoshin has always been O2W because he has never performed at Ozeki level since he was promoted to the rank. He doesn't deserve to be on the East side.

The Goeido hatters will say differently, but numbers don't lie.

Uhm...no. Healthy Goeido is about as good quality-wise to injured Tochinoshin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, maorencze said:
On 07/12/2018 at 13:25, RPedro44 said:

Basically, Tochinoshin has always been O2W because he has never performed at Ozeki level since he was promoted to the rank. He doesn't deserve to be on the East side.

The Goeido hatters will say differently, but numbers don't lie.

Uhm...no. Healthy Goeido is about as good quality-wise to injured Tochinoshin. 

Ozeki-level, deserving, comparison with Goeido, and progression. Details later today. ~~~ What is "Ozeki-level"? Let's say an average of 9 wins per honbasho. Given that, no, Tochinoshin after his three honbasho as an ozeki, isn't there.

How about for Goeido? Over his first three honbasho as an ozeki, his win totals were 8, 5, 8. After ten honbasho, never winning more than 9, he got a 12-3 result. Excluding two early withdrawals, over 24 honbasho, his average is 8.3 wins per honbasho. Enough to maintain the rank. Not "ozeki-level" as defined here. So, Goeido detractors have a point in that.

So, @RPedro44: what does it take to be deserving of the East side?

How about head-to-head? So far, G 16-10 T. Over the past twelve, they're level at 6-6, though favoring G more recently.

With good fortune, and continued gambarizing, T may be able to do better than G has done. We'll see.

Edited by Shinrei
scheduled continuation

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Shinrei said:

Ozeki-level, deserving, comparison with Goeido, and progression. Details later today. ~~~ What is "Ozeki-level"? Let's say an average of 9 wins per honbasho. Given that, no, Tochinoshin after his three honbasho as an ozeki, isn't there.

 

Let's wait a few more before verdict on Tochinoshin. Maybe his body won't be up to it, though it got him that far (but only that far is not enough, for sure). I for one still believe, but he needs to get his act together.

That said, Tochi's power-bouts are a thing of beauty, and when Tochi is at his best/strongest, quality of content is higher and his sumo far more entertaining than rather no-taste-no-smell Goeido style (though even he is very effective when at his best, 15-0 speaks volumes).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Shinrei said:

So, @RPedro44: what does it take to be deserving of the East side?

He will need to do better than the other Ozeki. Only one can get a East side. The other 2 will be West as long as we have 3 Yok.

I have nothing against Tochi, but can't understand all the hype around him. As I said here a few months ago, looking at both careers so far, Goeido is far better than Tochi. Yes, Tochi had a big injury, but before that he did nothing great and until early this year he was a mediocre wrestler. Goeido on the other hand has been playing with the big boys since 2012 and should get more credit for that.

If Tochi is Ozeki material, I'm not convinced yet. Compared with Goeido, i believe there is more chances he puts 2 great basho together and is promoted to Yok and at the same time there is more chances he gets demoted next year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this