Akinomaki

Takanoiwa hits his tsukebito

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5 hours ago, robnplunder said:

BTW, that's 3 top Mongolian rikishi who are out of Makuuchi for good: Harumafuji, Terunofuji, and Takanoiwa.   Once Kak & Hak go, the Mongolian dominance will be over for a while.

If Takanoiwa is a “top Mongolian”, then by the same token so too are Ichinojo, Tamawashi, Chiyoshoma and Arawashi, and they’re still around. The first two of those are sanyaku regulars, whereas Takanoiwa never made it past M2w. 

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22 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

I thought you were gonna mention that 3 Mongolians got outed after violent outbursts. Asashōryū, Harumafuji, Takanoiwa. Am I being racist and forgetting similar Japanese incidents or not? I mean since Asashōryū, not before.

Well, there’s this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokitsukaze_stable_hazing_scandal

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16 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

If Takanoiwa is a “top Mongolian”, then by the same token so too are Ichinojo, Tamawashi, Chiyoshoma and Arawashi, and they’re still around. The first two of those are sanyaku regulars, whereas Takanoiwa never made it past M2w. 

Tamawashi is quite an anomaly for a Mongolian rikishi, being almost entirely an oshi-zumo specialist while most Mongolians are yotsu specialists since it more closely resembles how Mongolian wrestling is fought.  So "technically" he's a Mongolian, but "techniquely" he is not.

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4 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Tamawashi is quite an anomaly for a Mongolian rikishi, being almost entirely an oshi-zumo specialist while most Mongolians are yotsu specialists since it more closely resembles how Mongolian wrestling is fought.  So "technically" he's a Mongolian, but "techniquely" he is not.

He’s pretty well known for his kotenage. It’s his second most frequently used kimarite and he’s injured a number of aite using it over the years.

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2 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

I thought you were gonna mention that 3 Mongolians got outed after violent outbursts. Asashōryū, Harumafuji, Takanoiwa. Am I being racist and forgetting similar Japanese incidents or not? I mean since Asashōryū, not before.

I wasn't watching sumo during Asashoryu's reign.    I am not aware of other violence than Haruma & Takanoiwa's.   If there have been others by Japanese or others, I am ignorant of those.   BTW, violence by any rikishi be it Mongoloian or Japanese is plain bad.   It's a severe form of bullying the weak.

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< Removed by author due to being duplicate post >

Edited by robnplunder

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Fairly certain takayoshitoshi slapped his own tsukebito around earlier this year, during a honbasho, in front of the whole locker room.  What was it kyujo followed by a one basho suspension?  All that said for those who “don’t recall” any Japanese rikishi with violent outbursts.  

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3 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

He’s pretty well known for his kotenage. It’s his second most frequently used kimarite and he’s injured a number of aite using it over the years.

What's this supposed to mean?  Is this supposed to be some sort of argument that he's the same as other Mongolians?  Or is it just a random associated fact?  His style is clearly not like most Mongolians, and looking at a complete kimarite profile makes that very clear as opposed to going "Hey look, there's a throw high on the list!"

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1 hour ago, Gurowake said:

What's this supposed to mean?  Is this supposed to be some sort of argument that he's the same as other Mongolians?  Or is it just a random associated fact?  His style is clearly not like most Mongolians, and looking at a complete kimarite profile makes that very clear as opposed to going "Hey look, there's a throw high on the list!"

Why so sensitive? I was just pointing out that he’s just as comfortable making throws as he is pushing and shoving, only not on the belt. That’s no more random a fact than the ‘point’ you seemed to be making that he’s not a proper Mongolian or something, whatever that’s supposed to mean. We were talking about Mongolians in sumo, not a sumo style. I’m not sure why you felt the need to imply he doesn’t count because he’s not a yotsu-specialist and that he’s only “technically” a Mongolian.

Edited by Eikokurai

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3 minutes ago, Otokonoyama said:

Is this some of that British understatement you seem fond of pointing out?

Who are you speaking to?

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9 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Who are you speaking to?

We get it. You're oh so much cleverer than everyone else. Now move on.

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20 minutes ago, Otokonoyama said:

We get it. You're oh so much cleverer than everyone else. Now move on.

What? I’m not sure what I’ve done here, especially to you. I also don’t remember ever commenting on British understatement on the forum. 

Someone suggested Tamawashi is only technically a Mongolian because of his sumo style, which is an interesting point, but not particularly pertinent to the original point about the dominance of Mongolians in sumo. Tamwawashi is a Mongolian, regardless of how one chooses to categorize his sumo, and he’s also a sanyaku regular. If pointing this out upsets people, those people should grow some thicker skin.

Edited by Eikokurai

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12 hours ago, robnplunder said:

BTW, that's 3 top Mongolian rikishi who are out of Makuuchi for good: Harumafuji, Terunofuji, and Takanoiwa.   Once Kak & Hak go, the Mongolian dominance will be over for a while.

There was a time when Hawaiians were dominant. There is always going to be some type of era that will come and go. 

Another case was a heya known as Futagoyama. It merged with then Fujishima beya and become the most dominant heya during the 1990's. And due to recent events, it no longer exists.

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21 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

What? I’m not sure what I’ve done here, especially to you. I also don’t remember ever commenting on British understatement on the forum. 

Someone suggested Tamawashi is only technically a Mongolian because of his sumo style, which is an interesting point, but not particularly pertinent to the original point about the dominance of Mongolians in sumo. Tamwawashi is a Mongolian, regardless of how one chooses to categorize his sumo, and he’s also a sanyaku regular. If pointing this out upsets people, those people should grow some thicker skin.

I was making a joke about "technical" and "technique", as well as the fact Tamawashi is very often forgotten to be Mongolian because he doesn't fit the type.  Your comment about how he uses kotenage has nothing to do with either of those despite apparently being an argument against the latter, if that's what it was intended to be.  I don't know if it was or not, which is why I asked, and added that if it was it really was quite a poor argument.  The fact that you seem to be pressing on the fact "He uses one particular throw a lot" and "He's still Mongolian regardless" indicates that you seem to be arguing against me, but in a way that doesn't actually address what I was saying, which is the second half the first sentence of this post.  The first half came about because I was going to say that Tamawashi was only "technically" a Mongolian, and realized how that played with the fact that it was his different technique, a word closely related to "technical" that made him stood apart.

And now I've had to explain my joke.  At least it's a thread and you should be reading it and laughing/smirking/groaning well before you get here.

By the way, did you know that Sokokurai is Mongolian too?  He just happens to be a Chinese citizen; there are more Mongolians in China than in Mongolia.  His technique is also quite typical of the Mongolians.

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20 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

I was making a joke about "technical" and "technique", as well as the fact Tamawashi is very often forgotten to be Mongolian because he doesn't fit the type.  Your comment about how he uses kotenage has nothing to do with either of those despite apparently being an argument against the latter, if that's what it was intended to be.  I don't know if it was or not, which is why I asked, and added that if it was it really was quite a poor argument.  The fact that you seem to be pressing on the fact "He uses one particular throw a lot" and "He's still Mongolian regardless" indicates that you seem to be arguing against me, but in a way that doesn't actually address what I was saying, which is the second half the first sentence of this post.  The first half came about because I was going to say that Tamawashi was only "technically" a Mongolian, and realized how that played with the fact that it was his different technique, a word closely related to "technical" that made him stood apart.

And now I've had to explain my joke.  At least it's a thread and you should be reading it and laughing/smirking/groaning well before you get here.

By the way, did you know that Sokokurai is Mongolian too?  He just happens to be a Chinese citizen; there are more Mongolians in China than in Mongolia.  His technique is also quite typical of the Mongolians.

I got the joke. It was a good joke. I like a good play on words. It just seemed like you were suggesting he shouldn’t be included in the list of Mongolians for those reasons, rather than reminding that he is also Mongolian. The joke was how that point was made, so it seemed. If our wires have gotten crossed, no problem. Apologies.

And yes, as my user name hints, I’m aware of Sokokurai and his heritage. He’s a personal favorite of mine, because I’m based in China so I like to support the only China-born rikishi.

Edit: Allow me to expand on one thing. When I see/hear someone say “technically” in a discussion about ethnicity and nationality, I am a little primed to interpret that negatively. My son is “technically” a Chinese citizen, but he’s just as British, you see. People saying things like that with quote marks are often being a bit snide. Thus I interpreted your comment to mean something like “he’s not a real Mongolian”. Now you’ve explained what you meant, I get it. I took it the wrong way, ironically being oversensitive myself. I’ve been spending too much time reading The Guardian.

Edited by Eikokurai
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42 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

I've been spending too much time reading The Guardian.

I suggest you stop that immediately...for your health. ;)

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Just now, Pandaazuma said:

I suggest you stop that immediately...for your health. ;)

Internet in China. It’s one of the few papers I can read without a VPN. 

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22 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Internet in China. It’s one of the few papers I can read without a VPN. 

Personally I would rather read the Beano. Better geopolitical analysis by far. ;)

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59 minutes ago, Pandaazuma said:

Personally I would rather read the Beano. Better geopolitical analysis by far. ;)

I mostly read it to wind myself up.

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19 hours ago, robnplunder said:

BTW, that's 3 top Mongolian rikishi who are out of Makuuchi for good: Harumafuji, Terunofuji, and Takanoiwa.   Once Kak & Hak go, the Mongolian dominance will be over for a while.

Well, there are still 4 Mongolian rikishi in Makuuchi as of Kyushu, with three more in Jutyo; but dominate, probably not.

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11 hours ago, Munjeezy said:

Fairly certain takayoshitoshi slapped his own tsukebito around earlier this year, during a honbasho, in front of the whole locker room.  What was it kyujo followed by a one basho suspension?  All that said for those who “don’t recall” any Japanese rikishi with violent outbursts.  

Years ago, Kotokanyu punched Ikioi in shitakubeya after a match together.  Kotokanyu not appreciating being on the receiving end of then 19 year old Ikioi's harite.  He soon retired after that.  More recent are Hikarugenji who was susupended two basho from ongoing? violent behavior.  Then, there was Komanokuni involved with Shibatayama oyakata  which brought up litigation only later to be swept under the rug from public.

So it seems these incidents are really quickly and easily forgotten about yet we know it happens.

Edited by inhashi
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Sumo is about as tough as it gets. Some smacking around is to be expected. I do think that closed fist and kicking should be avoided, but soon strong language will be banned next. Why not award every rikishi for trying like they do in Kindergarden.. Sheesh 

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The rumors of Takanoiwa turning fighter lead to all kind of fantasies in the tabloids:

Harumafuji is also still in demand by fighting organizations - the 2 in the ring would be the ultimate revenge fight. But there is an even weirder dream match: also Takanohana had love calls from fighting world - he had put that away with "I don't think I'm that skilled" - a shisho-deshi match? http://www.zakzak.co.jp/spo/news/181209/spo1812090002-n2.html

(if the rumors of Taka's financial problems are true ... - but there is still politics for him in the mix as well)

The weekend wide shows of course all have Takanoiwa - the better ones:

Bankisha 14m, Takeshi 10m, wide na show 7m from 10:29h with Mitsuru Yaku

(from now on I'll give the length and if it is on screen, the start time of the broadcast - and not as before the start time in the video file)

Edited by Akinomaki
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