Kyushu Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[ryafuji 817]

What would be the point of coming back in January? It's obvious he can no longer perform at a yokozuna level. He struggled to a 10-5 last time but didn't really look convincing in any of his bouts.

[Rocks 1,810]

15 minutes ago, ryafuji said:

What would be the point of coming back in January? It's obvious he can no longer perform at a yokozuna level. He struggled to a 10-5 last time but didn't really look convincing in any of his bouts.

I just don't think he wants to retire on the road and he wouldn't be crapping on Takayasu's Yusho celebrations. A few more losses in January aren't going to change anything. If Takayasu doesn't take the Yusho then maybe he won't come back in January. But I don't think he announces before they get back to Tokyo.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

11 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I just don't think he wants to retire on the road and he wouldn't be crapping on Takayasu's Yusho celebrations. A few more losses in January aren't going to change anything. If Takayasu doesn't take the Yusho then maybe he won't come back in January. But I don't think he announces before they get back to Tokyo.

For me the key point is the impact on Takayasu rather than where he retires, though you do make a valid point I think. Imagine, though, Tagonoura-beya on the final day after Takayasu has won his first championship. Everyone is happy for him but also not sure how much they should celebrate because their shattered and dejected Yokozuna mate is weeping inconsolably in the corner. What a crappy way to mark a man’s first yusho.

[Tigerboy1966 1,480]

15 minutes ago, Rocks said:

I just don't think he wants to retire on the road and he wouldn't be crapping on Takayasu's Yusho celebrations.

Err... it might not be Kisenosato's decision to make. Technically he can defer retirement, but he may just get the tap on the shoulder.

[Churaumi 745]

My wife and I both yell at the tv for Kisenosato to go kyujo when he mounts the dohyo. He was one of our favorites as an ozeki, and it’s no fun watching him flounder like this. We were so hopeful after last basho, but Hakuho can’t come by and kick him into gear before every basho. He doesn’t seem to have the yokozuna mojo anymore. I wonder if this is it for him, since he hasn’t gone kyujo yet. Could he be staking it all on turning this basho around?

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Lol. Wrong time machine. ;)

[rhyen 1,848]

27 minutes ago, Pandaazuma said:

Lol. Wrong time machine. ;)

Was wondering who was that guy on the alcohol fumes powered lawn mower...

[Amamaniac 2,079]

6 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

For Takayasu's sake, I hope he doesn't win or Kise battles on instead of raining on his yusho parade.

For Takayasu's sake, I hope he does win no matter what happens to Kise after today.  It has already been said that Takayasu is the only Ozeki not to have a championship under his belt.  And I believe that Kise would be more than happy for his stable mate, even if his own situation is dire.  

The real question is whether Takayasu is Yokozuna material.  I reserve my decision until I see him go up against Takakeisho later in this tournament.

[Rocks 1,810]

1 hour ago, Tigerboy1966 said:

Err... it might not be Kisenosato's decision to make. Technically he can defer retirement, but he may just get the tap on the shoulder.

Considering the way they have treating him already? It's all his to make. Unless I am missing something no one has even mentioned intai in the press yet and that is after 4 losses. It's started though because there is a bit noting starting with 4 losses is a first for a Yokozuna in the 15 day basho era. But I doubt even if they are saying anything to him privately they care if he announces now or in January.

[Amamaniac 2,079]

2 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

6 hours ago, akumadzeki said:

If Kise retires, the will be no Japanese yokozuna. Will the sumo elders handle that fact easily? :D

 

They handled it quite well for 14 odd years, so yes.

In Kisenosato's case, it seems to be something of a double-edged sword for the NSK.  They have enjoyed great ticket sales since Kise became a Yokozuna (i.e., Japanese hero), but they are finding themselves having to pay out more kinboshi money...  But (if and) when Kise retires, the possibility of a significant drop in ticket sales would make all those kinboshi all the more painful.  Nevertheless, ticket revenues probably make kinboshi expenses seem trifling.

But like you said, they will no doubt "handle it".

[Rocks 1,810]

Maybe someone can translate this better than Google. It seems interesting. Especially what Onokuni is saying.

https://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2018111401291&g=spo

[Dapeng 236]

23 minutes ago, Rocks said:

Maybe someone can translate this better than Google. It seems interesting. Especially what Onokuni is saying.

https://www.jiji.com/jc/article?k=2018111401291&g=spo

He said a 8-7 is acceptable for Kise. 

[Dapeng 236]

29 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

In Kisenosato's case, it seems to be something of a double-edged sword for the NSK.  They have enjoyed great ticket sales since Kise became a Yokozuna (i.e., Japanese hero), but they are finding themselves having to pay out more kinboshi money...  But (if and) when Kise retires, the possibility of a significant drop in ticket sales would make all those kinboshi all the more painful.  Nevertheless, ticket revenues probably make kinboshi expenses seem trifling.

But like you said, they will no doubt "handle it".

Even he withdraws from tomorrow, no one will ask him to retire. In January another 10-5 or even a 9-6 will keep him on dohyo for another two bashos. But if Takayasu wins this basho with a strong performance, people will change their mind. 

[ALAKTORN 346]

22 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

He said a 8-7 is acceptable for Kise. 

That’s pretty pathetic. If Kise doesn’t retire now I might lose all respect I had for him.

[Asapedroryu 235]

Can really Kise drop the basho without being forced to retire?
In Sept he was comming from a long injury period, so his performance was considered as decent for the situation.

In Nov what will be the justification as there doesn't seem to be any new injury. Plus, in trainning he was beating everybody, although trainning and basho are two very different thing.

 

 

 

[ryafuji 817]

28 minutes ago, Dapeng said:

He said a 8-7 is acceptable for Kise. 

Well Onokuni is speaking from experience having scraped by with an 8-7 more than once in his own yokozuna career.

[Nantonoyama 252]

4 minutes ago, ALAKTORN said:

That’s pretty pathetic. If Kise doesn’t retire now I might lose all respect I had for him.

Regardless of what Kisenosao wants to do, he is not the only one in this game. The best interest of the Kyokai, of his heya (including heyamates) and his own interest. I am certain he has a very high respect of the sumo, and that he is fighting at his best every single bout he is involved in (if I remember well he did not practice inter-ozeki yaocho-like end-of-basho free wins). 

[Bumpkin 438]

If 8-7 is acceptable for Kisenosato, than he might as well soldier on until he gets his 8th loss. Right now, his career depends on kachikoshi. 0-4 to 8-7 is still possible.

[Tigerboy1966 1,480]

1 hour ago, Dapeng said:

He said a 8-7 is acceptable for Kise. 

And where are those 8 wins from 11 bouts going to come from? He's got 3 ozeki, 2 sekiwake and a komusubi to face as well as Tamawashi tomorrow.

[ScreechingOwl 343]

It's amazing how quickly things can turn around in sumo.  Less than two years ago, in Haru 2017, Kisenosato won his second yusho in a row and Terunofuji finished with the jun yusho, and looked like it was only a matter of time before he too became a yokozuna. It seems like another lifetime ago for both rikishi.

The truth about Kisenosato is that since his injury he hasn't been capable of fighting at yokozuna strength. As I've previously noted, last basho's 10 victories were completely unconvincing. Maybe 0-4 is surprising, but can anyone say they are surprised that Kisenosato is struggling - or that they don't expect him to struggle every single basho from now on?  It's always difficult to watch great athletes (or near great ones) continue when they've lost their mojo. It's like being in a dead relationship - there may be a few more dates, but everyone knows it's over.

[Rocks 1,810]

7 minutes ago, ScreechingOwl said:

It's amazing how quickly things can turn around in sumo.  Less than two years ago, in Haru 2017, Kisenosato won his second yusho in a row and Terunofuji finished with the jun yusho, and looked like it was only a matter of time before he too became a yokozuna. It seems like another lifetime ago for both rikishi.

The truth about Kisenosato is that since his injury he hasn't been capable of fighting at yokozuna strength. As I've previously noted, last basho's 10 victories were completely unconvincing. Maybe 0-4 is surprising, but can anyone say they are surprised that Kisenosato is struggling - or that they don't expect him to struggle every single basho from now on?  It's always difficult to watch great athletes (or near great ones) continue when they've lost their mojo. It's like being in a dead relationship - there may be a few more dates, but everyone knows it's over.

Surprised? Not much. But I would have thought he would be at 2-2 or at the very least gotten lucky and have 1 win. But then again this is Kisenosato, who never gets lucky. His style has never been well suited to a lucky win. He does it or he don't.

[Akumazeki 28]

5 hours ago, Kintamayama said:

They handled it quite well for 14 odd years, so yes.

of course they will handle. They have no other choice. I was trying just to be a sarcastic. 

[Randomitsuki 2,843]

Takakeisho already won his last six bouts in Aki, so he stands at 10 consecutive wins as a Komusubi. A quick (and not quite perfect) glance at the entire 6-basho era showed me that only two rikishi managed longer Komusubi streaks. The last one was Kotomitsuki in Natsu 2005. The other one I found was Asashio in Kyushu 1981. Both managed 12 consecutive wins in a single basho. I did not find anyone with a longer streak than 10 Komusubi wins over two basho. So, Takakeisho could write history tomorrow (or my data are wrong...)

[CT3* 331]

It's odd to me to see some folks talking as if Takayasu has this basho pretty much locked up. There's still a whooooole lotta sumo left to this tournament.

[Andonishiki 170]

I was almost 100% certain Tochiozan would grant the Yokozuna win Nr 1 today.
It didn't happen, but it was close.... maybe Tochiozan even got scolded afterwards in a backroom.

IF Kise enters the ring on day 5, I strongly believe that he will win.

Tamawashi is a 33yr old veteran, he already has 2 kinboshi and I believe that he knows about this
responsiblity and gratefulness (regarding his fame & his personal wealth) versus the Kyokai...

Kisenosato is not injured, so there could be a real conflict here...

- go kyujo now with a fake injury to come back in January ? wouldnt bode well with the press and the fans
- stay in the basho and keep on losing ? not a valid option either - keep in mind the rank of Yokozuna & the dignity bla
...therefore, I see two options remaining
a) drop out of the basho and retire
b) start winning a few and stay in till at least day 12 without suffering makekoshi by then

I believe the public & the press will continue to support Kise and the Kyokai family/his oyakata/other forces within Sumo 
will do everything they can to realize option b)
1-4 after the Tamawashi fight, 2-4 after day 6 vs Nishikigi, 4-4 after Ryuden and Kaisei
price tag for those four wins.... approx the value of 80-100 kensho envelopes

Edited November 14, 2018 by Andonishiki