Kyushu Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Eikokurai 3,437]

18 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Although two Yokozunas are kyujo, it still seems a little suspicious to me that Takakeisho (East Komusubi) is matched against Ryuden (WM3) on Day 3.  In the last tournament, the East Komusubi was not matched against a Maegashira opponent until Day 9!  Is the Kyokai perhaps worried that Takakeisho will tear through (i.e., embarrass) the sanyaku at his current rate?

Why should they worry about a sanyaku guy tearing through sanyaku guys? That’s part of the job. Maybe what they really want is a Takakeisho yusho so they’re serving him some rank-and-filers to chew up. Or maybe it’s neither of the above. :)

Edited November 13, 2018 by Eikokurai

[Ack! 501]

If there were power rankings for sumo, I think Takakeisho and my long-time favorite Tochiozan would be on top right now, which would go under the category of "whodathunkit?"

[Sakura 1,524]

4 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Although two Yokozunas are kyujo, it still seems a little suspicious to me that Takakeisho (East Komusubi) is matched against Ryuden (WM3) on Day 3.  In the last tournament, the East Komusubi was not matched against a Maegashira opponent until Day 9!  Is the Kyokai perhaps worried that Takakeisho will tear through (i.e., embarrass) the sanyaku at his current rate?

It's not suspicious at all. It's just a matter of scheduling. They try to even out the intra-sanyaku bouts per day with the fewest per day at the start. Given the number of Sanyaku this tournament we only needed 1 per day to start off with. Takakeisho as Komusubi was chosen in the usual descending order pattern. Kaisiei's return didn't change the number of intra-Sanyaku bouts needed on Day 3, however since Takakeisho has already had two such bouts they're putting in Kaisei for the honours. This means that Takakeisho gets the next rikishi available after all else is worked out. In this case, Ryuden.

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

1 hour ago, Ack! said:

If there were power rankings for sumo, I think Takakeisho and my long-time favorite Tochiozan would be on top right now, which would go under the category of "whodathunkit?"

There are power rankings for rikishi! Ask any of the gamers. ;)

[Ryoshishokunin 335]

5 hours ago, Amamaniac said:

Although two Yokozunas are kyujo, it still seems a little suspicious to me that Takakeisho (East Komusubi) is matched against Ryuden (WM3) on Day 3.  In the last tournament, the East Komusubi was not matched against a Maegashira opponent until Day 9!  Is the Kyokai perhaps worried that Takakeisho will tear through (i.e., embarrass) the sanyaku at his current rate?

The order of opponents for a komusubi vary a lot given on the number of sanyaku and some other details.  Given that Kaisei came back on day 3, Takakeisho was always going to get a maegashira opponent on Day 3: they split the load between the two Ks usually.  

(It's slightly surprising that he didn't get a sanyaku opponent on Day *4*, however... but it's not unheard of.  He should get a Sekiwake or Ozeki opponent from Day 5 until he's through them all.)

[Akinomaki 41,841]

Kaisei returning provides the rare slim chance to have more sanyaku on the dohyo with the riji-cho for the day 15 address than for the day 1 kyokai go-aisatsu - I wonder how long back ago that maybe happened

Edited November 13, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Jakusotsu 6,401]

1 hour ago, Ryoshishokunin said:

(It's slightly surprising that he didn't get a sanyaku opponent on Day *4*, however... but it's not unheard of.  He should get a Sekiwake or Ozeki opponent from Day 5 until he's through them all.)

Surprised me a bit as well, but I guess they're trying to save three intra-sanyaku matches for Senshuraku.

[Eikokurai 3,437]

Bye bye Kisenosato. It’s been a pleasure watching you all these years. Enjoy your retirement.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Eikokurai

[Tiger Tanaka 226]

Ugh Kise :(. 10-5 in his returning basho and now 0-3 in a tournament where the conditions were setting up perfect with the other 2 Yokozuna sitting out. He needs to figure out how to react to the oshi rikishi without the full use of his left side or it's going to be game over very very soon.

[Amamaniac 2,092]

2 hours ago, Akinomaki said:

Kaisei returning provides the rare slim chance to have more sanyaku on the dohyo with the riji-cho for the day 15 address than for the day 1 kyokai go-aisatsu - I wonder how long back ago that maybe happened

"Slim", indeed.  Given how easily Kaisei went down in his bout today, I'm not sure if he will make it to Day 15...  (I suspect he hasn't fully recovered from his calf injury.)

Edited November 13, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Pandaazuma 1,310]

Kisenosato has very little offense these days and, in fairness, he got the three worst possible jo'i opponents...all fast, strong and good at lateral movement. If he'd started with Nishikigi, Ryuden and Kaisei, he'd be 3-0 now. But that's how it is. One thing's for sure - he's no longer yokozuna level. Tochiozan could well beat him tomorrow as well but of course we may not get to see that bout...

[ScreechingOwl 343]

While it's true that Kisenosato went 10-5 in Aki, it was one of the poorest/luckiest/most underwhelming (take your pick) 10 victory performance I've seen in a long time. Kisenosato has never been the same since his injury, and not only is he 0-3 but he's looked bad in each loss. It's a shame he never got the needed surgery. The only real question is intai now or intai the next basho he enters.

[Amamaniac 2,092]

Today, if my limited Japanese served, Kitanofuji admitted that Takakeisho has a chance for the yusho, but wasn't altogether sure if that would be a good outcome (for sumo?).

In my opinion, after Day 1, Takakeisho "looked like" the best wrestler in the Top Division.  Many, if not most, of the regular favourites looked "rusty" – as someone put it.  Right away, Takakeisho's prospects for a championship looked promising.  

Having beaten the top two active wrestlers on the banzuke, he is already in the running for the Shukunsho, and I would toss in the Kantosho as well.  

Yet anything can happen in sumo...  But Takakeisho is not injury prone (at least not yet).  And I love his determination and self-confidence.  So, full steam ahead!

[Amamaniac 2,092]

Has any Yokozuna in the past stayed in a tournament to the end after losing his first three bouts?  The writing is on the dohyo for Kise.  

[ALAKTORN 346]

4 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

Has any Yokozuna in the past stayed in a tournament to the end after losing his first three bouts?  The writing is on the dohyo for Kise.  

I remember Harumafuji doing something similar to that fairly recently? Might want to try looking that up.

Kisenosato should’ve retired looooong ago. Now my question is does he retire now, will the kyōkai allow another kyūjō, or does he stay in and attempt to salvage the basho with a win tomorrow?

[Morty 1,518]

Poor Kise. Not only has he lost three times in a row but in most ignominious fashion, ending up face down in the dirt each time. I really hope this isn't the end, but if he doesn't win tomorrow then I think he might be done...

[Jakusotsu 6,401]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

Has any Yokozuna in the past stayed in a tournament to the end after losing his first three bouts?

Only once in the 15days basho era:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_basho.aspx?r=1350&b=198809

[Kintamayama 47,301]

The yobidashi called Tochinoshin Tochiouzan today. Twice. "I thought to myself 'what the?? I thought it was probably a mistake and that he would fix it the second time. But he didn't.. He had to make it a perfect mistake. I think that's a first.. It was fun," said Tochinoshin later. 

[Amamaniac 2,092]

2 hours ago, ALAKTORN said:

I remember Harumafuji doing something similar to that fairly recently? Might want to try looking that up.

I checked Harumafuji's entire Yokozuna career, and he never started a tournament with three straight losses.  The closest example I saw was Hakuho, who pulled out on Day 3 of the 2015 Autumn Tournament after losing on the first two days.  Hakuho knew when it was time to sit out.  Kisenosato must be struggling with that decision, since in his case it is more of a retire or not retire type issue.

[ryafuji 825]

11 minutes ago, Amamaniac said:

I checked Harumafuji's entire Yokozuna career, and he never started a tournament with three straight losses.  The closest example I saw was Hakuho, who pulled out on Day 3 of the 2015 Autumn Tournament after losing on the first two days.  Hakuho knew when it was time to sit out.  Kisenosato must be struggling with that decision, since in his case it is more of a retire or not retire type issue.

Maybe ALAKTORN is thinking of Harumafuji recovering from three losses in the first five days to win the yusho in Aki 2017.

Edited November 13, 2018 by ryafuji

[Amamaniac 2,092]

58 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Only once in the 15days basho era:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_basho.aspx?r=1350&b=198809

Onokuni was not a stellar Yokozuna.  He sat out six tournaments (Kise has sat out four), and he only had one championship as a Yokozuna.  Is it possible that Kisenosato will end up being even less stellar than Onokuni?  Both men deserve respect for becoming Grand Champions, but not so much in relation to other Yokozunas...

[mikawa 1,794]

That was some nodowa from Tamawashi today

[Eikokurai 3,437]

So Kisenosato is the first Yokozuna since Asahifuji in Hatsu ‘92 to lose the first three days. Asahifuji retired right after that.

The last Yokozuna to appear on day four after losing three was Onokuni at Aki 1988.

Edited November 13, 2018 by Eikokurai

[Rocks 1,810]

It's a tough call for Kisenosato today. Normally he'd drop out for sure but it isn't likely to get any easier for him in January and he'll hardly get an easier schedule than for this basho. I think he sticks it out till 5 losses. He really hasn't looked horrible, just not Yokozuna worthy. 

[Akinomaki 41,841]

6 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

The last Yokozuna to appear on day four after losing three was Onokuni in his infamous 7-8 Aki basho 1989.

He won on day 1 in that one - Aki 88 he finished 8-7

2 hours ago, Jakusotsu said:

Only once in the 15days basho era:

http://sumodb.sumogames.de/Rikishi_basho.aspx?r=1350&b=198809