Kyushu Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[Dwale 419]

1 minute ago, dingo said:

I was really rooting for Ryuden, but beating Ichinojo at the tawara takes more power than Ryuden managed to generate. Respect to him for trying to beat Ichinojo straightforward, but maybe that wasn't the best idea.

Takayasu impressively managed to escape Tochinoshin's death grip. I thought for a moment that he's gonna lose for sure when he let Tochinoshin have migiyotsu, but Tochinoshin is not quite himself this basho. Things remain exciting!

I was quite surprised by how much power Ryuuden showed in that match. Moving a big ol' slab of Ichinojo in any capacity takes strength of a high order.

Some really fun matches today. I got a kick out of Shohozan's fixation on smacking his opponent (including that sort of uppercut one, like, "YOU CANNOT ESCAPE MY SLAPS!" lol).

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

30 minutes ago, mikawa said:

Absolutely, a lot of things in sumo are open to interpretation

It is interesting, isn't it. I notice recently that the guest oyakata on the NHK broadcast are a little more assertive in correcting announcer mistakes regarding grips, changes on the move, and kimarite. There are a lot of the things the oyakata and the NSK don't always get just right. But when it comes to technical details of a bout, even the most addled among them seem to know it instinctively. Who was east or west, what their shikona actually is or to whom the gyoji pointed may all get lost in translation, but by jove they know those kimarite inside and out ands six ways from Sunday.

[maorencze 144]

7 hours ago, rhyen said:

Not bowing was Takagenji?

Well, Takakeisho doesn't seem all that enthusiastic bowing either, I'd say Aoiyama-Chiyoshoma level

18 minutes ago, mikawa said:

Tochinoshin tried very hard, but he wasn't able to get his left hand on Takayasu's belt, which proved to be decisive

This was such an awesome power struggle, I'm still amazed by it. And clearly it took all of Takayasu's power to be able to hold on long enough to perform the technique. Applause to both, beautiful bout.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

1 hour ago, dingo said:

Takakeisho's side slap seems to be almost as powerful of a weapon as his frontal slaps. This is at least the second time this basho when he sends his opponent down/out with a strong slap to the side.

I was really rooting for Ryuden, but beating Ichinojo at the tawara takes more power than Ryuden managed to generate. Respect to him for trying to beat Ichinojo straightforward, but maybe that wasn't the best idea.

Takayasu impressively managed to escape Tochinoshin's death grip. I thought for a moment that he's gonna lose for sure when he let Tochinoshin have migiyotsu, but Tochinoshin is not quite himself this basho. Things remain exciting!

He’s used that left arm swing more than twice. He took down Kisenosato and Goeido with it two days in a row early in the basho and has ended two or three more bouts the same way, like today. He’s developed it into a real weapon.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Eikokurai

[dingo 1,160]

1 hour ago, Dwale said:

I was quite surprised by how much power Ryuuden showed in that match. Moving a big ol' slab of Ichinojo in any capacity takes strength of a high order.

Some really fun matches today. I got a kick out of Shohozan's fixation on smacking his opponent (including that sort of uppercut one, like, "YOU CANNOT ESCAPE MY SLAPS!" lol).

To be fair Ichinojo is being pushed around easier than usual this basho. However if he manages to stop the opponent's momentum at the tawara like today, it seemingly takes at least double the power to push him over.

[Philioyamfugi 378]

I do think Takayasu can take this. I hope they both win out for a match and  playoff on the last day. Takakeisho has Aoiyama tomorrow ...  Interesting. 

Edited November 22, 2018 by Philioyamfugi

[yorikiried by fate 1,989]

5 hours ago, Morty said:

 

And Takakeisho has won at least half his matches this basho with that move. If Takayasu is paying attention he should totally be expecting it.

The thing is, that it seems to be pretty effective, expected or not. The key element, it seems, is that Takakeisho shows a very high split-second awareness and quickness in footwork to match it. In 99% of situations where rikishi are attempting such a move they seem to miss the sweet spot. Pulling it off consistently is quite an asset, especially for the oshi-based technique.

Will we get to know a Chiyotaiki Deluxe Edition(TM) ?

[Amamaniac 2,078]

As of tomorrow (day 13), Kotoshogiku will stand alone in tenth place among wrestlers with the most Top Division appearances.  He will still be 287 appearances short of Kyukutenho's record, which means he will have to stay in sumo for another 19-20 tournaments (3+ years) in order to set a new record.  What are the odds the 34 year-old veteran can stay in the Top Division that long?

[Benihana 1,901]

1 hour ago, Amamaniac said:

As of tomorrow (day 13), Kotoshogiku will stand alone in tenth place among wrestlers with the most Top Division appearances.  He will still be 287 appearances short of Kyukutenho's record, which means he will have to stay in sumo for another 19-20 tournaments (3+ years) in order to set a new record.  What are the odds the 34 year-old veteran can stay in the Top Division that long?

Looking at Aminishiki, Takekaze and Yoshi i'd say it's all about the injuries. Could be out next basho, could go on 'til he's 38. He will find enough victims in the lower ranks to keep him in and if he avoids getting up higher than M5...you know what i mean.

[Kotogouryuu 126]

6 hours ago, Dwale said:

I was quite surprised by how much power Ryuuden showed in that match. Moving a big ol' slab of Ichinojo in any capacity takes strength of a high order. 

I remember how impressed I was when Ichinojo first showed up in makuuchi. He seemed to have the ability to stop at will when pushed back. I still think it's possible he'll find a way to tap into his full potential.

That said, I'm liking what I'm seeing in Ryuden. It hasn't been an easy basho for him, but I expect him to do better in the future.

[dingo 1,160]

1 hour ago, Kotogouryuu said:

I remember how impressed I was when Ichinojo first showed up in makuuchi. He seemed to have the ability to stop at will when pushed back. I still think it's possible he'll find a way to tap into his full potential.

That said, I'm liking what I'm seeing in Ryuden. It hasn't been an easy basho for him, but I expect him to do better in the future.

Every time I see Ryuden doing well I can't help but think what could've been if he hadn't gotten injured for such a long time. All the more reason to appreciate his willpower to spend the time at the bottom of the banzuke and make it up to Makuuchi. He's still young, but could've been at the same rank years ago....

[Amamaniac 2,078]

13 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Takanoiwa's winning kimarite over Chiyoshoma looked more deserving of, say, a kakenage than a shitatenage. His left leg was hooked around Chiyoshoma's inside leg. It wasn't that dissimilar to a move Yutakayama beat Mitakeumi with in July.

Often times I feel the same way, i.e., that the officials don't get the kimarite right.  But over time, I have decided that they take this pronouncement very seriously, and generally speaking they make the right calls.  In this case, for example, you have to take into consideration which technique was being used by which wrestler. I would argue that it was Chiyoshoma who was initiating a foot sweep (i.e., hooking Takanoiwa's leg), whereas Takanoiwa definitely used his left inside grip to throw the off balance Chiyoshoma.  Hence, shitatenage.  

What I've noticed is that the NHK commentator gets the kimarite wrong quite frequently.  Things may look one way in real time and from one angle, but there is a small team of men (ex-wrestlers) in a room reviewing each bout, and they have access to multiple camera angles.  In mere seconds, they can check which technique resulted in each win.  And sometimes, further review by these dedicated men results in a change of the original pronouncement.  If they were truly lax about the kimarite calls, they wouldn't bother changing their initial calls.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Amamaniac 2,078]

The leaderboard in the Top Division got a little less crowded on day 12, with hiramaku contenders Aoiyama and Daieisho both losing their bouts and dropping one win further back.  Takakeisho maintained his slim lead, with Takayasu staying one win back.  With all the press hanging around the hanamichi, and Takakeisho watching Takayasu's bout on a TV monitor, it seemed as though people were ready to crown Takakeisho the tournament winner if Takayasu had lost.  That, however, was not the case.  A day 12 yusho is about the worst result for a tournament, at least in my mind.

 Not that the excitement is over in the Top Division, but today's Juryo bouts resulted in some rather interesting developments:

The leader, Terutsuyoshi, had a chance to extend his lead to two wins (hoping to go to 10-2 from 9-2).  However, he ended up losing to Tomokaze (a newcomer to the Juryo Division), who is having an impressive debut performance.  Surprise, surprise, Tomokaze moved up to 9-3!

Then, Enho, who was trailing by one win (8-3), went up against Kotoyuki (a.k.a. owl screecher).  He could have moved into a tie for first place (9-3), but instead, Kotoyuki not only won the bout, but also he went into a tie for first place.

Now, there are four wrestlers (including Mitoryu) with a 9-3 record, and three trailers at 8-4.  "Happy-tired" Toyonoshima is among the trailers!  It's a little more crowded at the top of the Juryo race than at the top of the Makuuchi one.  Just how will the torikumi over the next three days thin out that "Juryo pack"?

Edited November 22, 2018 by Amamaniac

[Chojin 18]

Had an awesome day yesterday at the sumo. Got a few more 色紙 signed by Oguruma, Kagamiyama, dewanoumi, yamahibiki, tamanoi, takasago  michinoku, isegahama, oitekaze, kumegawa, takashima, musashigawa, futagoyama, shikihide, fujigane, tatsutayama, tamagaki, sendagawa, iwatomo, shiranui, tatsutagawa, magaki, kumatagani, and kiyomigata. Now have around 40 percent of the elders.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

14 minutes ago, Chojin said:

Had an awesome day yesterday at the sumo. Got a few more 色紙 signed by Oguruma, Kagamiyama, dewanoumi, yamahibiki, tamanoi, takasago  michinoku, isegahama, oitekaze, kumegawa, takashima, musashigawa, futagoyama, shikihide, fujigane, tatsutayama, tamagaki, sendagawa, iwatomo, shiranui, tatsutagawa, magaki, kumatagani, and kiyomigata. Now have around 40 percent of the elders.

“Got a few more ...” he says.

And then lists half the JSA! Haha.

[Gurowake 3,922]

Yet more oddness from the torikumi committee.    Tochinoshin-MItakeumi and Takayasu-Takakeisho on Day 14.  We'll have the soroibumi be Takayasu-Mitakeumi, Tochinoshin-?, Ichinojo-Kaisei.  Well, it actually makes a good bit of sense to have the last match of the tournament feature as high of ranks as possible, but it means that what they did yesterday makes very little sense.  Why wasn't Tochinoshin-Mitakeumi on Day 13?  Maybe they just changed their minds. 

[specialweek 2 136]

Ozeki v Komusubi 14th day

[Gurowake 3,922]

9 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

Yet more oddness from the torikumi committee.    Tochinoshin-MItakeumi and Takayasu-Takakeisho on Day 14.  We'll have the soroibumi be Takayasu-Mitakeumi, Tochinoshin-?, Ichinojo-Kaisei.  Well, it actually makes a good bit of sense to have the last match of the tournament feature as high of ranks as possible, but it means that what they did yesterday makes very little sense.  Why wasn't Tochinoshin-Mitakeumi on Day 13?  Maybe they just changed their minds. 

There's also the very small possibility that they change what they do in the sanyaku because of issues with trying to pair the rest of the field.  If they paired Tochinoshin and Mitakeumi, maybe they couldn't find good opponents for Chiyotairyu and Takanoiwa?  With Goeido's late departure they may have just been worried about getting up something legal that tested the maegashira (then) at 9-2.  Given that they paired Tochinoshin with Takanoiwa and not Asanoyama, there might be something to it until you see they could have just switched Tochinoshin and Tochiozan's opponents and it would make more sense.  Let's just go with "lazy and uninterested in perfection".

Edited November 23, 2018 by Gurowake

[Sakura 1,472]

3 minutes ago, Gurowake said:

There's also the very small possibility that they change what they do in the sanyaku because of issues with trying to pair the rest of the field.  If they paired Tochinoshin and Mitakeumi, maybe they couldn't find good opponents for Chiyotairyu and Takanoiwa?  With Goeido's late departure they may have just been worried about getting up something legal that tested the maegashira (then) at 9-2.  Given that they paired Tochinoshin with Takanoiwa and not Asanoyama, there might be something to it until you see they could have just switched Tochinoshin and Tochiozan's opponents and it would make more sense.  Let's just go with "lazy and uninterested in perfection".

One thing I think Day 14 should do is give them time to work out opponents for all of the current 9-2 rikishi after they have fought. They are all in the first half.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

Judging by the day 14 matchup between Takayasu and Takakeisho, the sanyaku soroibumi is going to end up like this:

Takayasu vs Mitakeumi
Tochinoshin vs who knows
Ichinojo vs Kaisei

Takakeisho will probably be the match before the sanyaku soroibumi going against Aoiyama

Interesting to see what the reasoning behind matching the two T's on day 14 was.

 

My guess after having looked at the banzuke again is that Shin will get Abi

Edited November 23, 2018 by WAKATAKE

[Gurowake 3,922]

Just now, WAKATAKE said:

Interesting to see what the reasoning behind matching the two T's on day 14 was.

What?  You think they'll ever give their reasons for their torikumi decisions?

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

So far both lower division yusho winners for today were two men who had to overcome some grievous injuries.

Hatooka is your jonokuchi yusho winner after winning his seventh match today.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201811230000308.html

Kotourasaki who beat Kenho, now the heaviest man in sumo post Orora, and Mitsuuchi will be facing each other for the jonidan 7-0 playoff on senshuraku.

https://www.nikkansports.com/battle/sumo/news/201811230000332.html

And everyone's favorite, Ura won his match against Hikarifuji to claim the sandanme yusho after the latter's stablemate lost to jonidan Mitsuuchi. With this, we'll be seeing Ura back in the upper makushita for January.

https://www.sanspo.com/sports/news/20181123/sum18112314110007-n1.html

Edited November 23, 2018 by WAKATAKE

[Kamitsuumi 384]

1 hour ago, WAKATAKE said:

Kotourasaki, now the heaviest man in sumo post Orora, and Mitsuuchi will be facing each other for the jonidan 7-0 playoff on senshuraku.

Kotourasaki is only 90kg; his opponent today (day 13) Kenho was 250kg.

[WAKATAKE 2,631]

Sokokurai wins the makushita yusho, meaning he will be back in the Juryo for the Hatsu basho

[Michishige 66]

Did anyone else just hear the announcer say that Satoyama has announced his intai?