Kyushu Basho 2018 Discussion [SPOILERS]

[rhyen 1,799]

13 hours ago, maorencze said:

Tochiozan had a reasonably good idea (hunting for the belt), except Takakeisho was visibly leaving an opening on purpose (defend fiercely twice and then open up, I really think it was on purpose) while retreating just enough for Tochiozan to have to compromise his balance more.

I hate the kid, can't stand his face and all (like, KO'ing a fellow sekitori during training, seriously? Not to mention that nasty thing he did to Ura back in Juryo...coupled with his usual bearing, not bothering to bow properly or even look if your opponent is OK after giving him a "healthy" dame-oshi, which he does often...Yeah, real "class") but still stand by my previously stated opinion that out of this batch of Next Gen, Takakeisho will be the first Yokozuna and it's not that far away in future. 

Not bowing was Takagenji?

[robnplunder 974]

2 hours ago, rhyen said:

Not bowing was Takagenji?

You missed it?   One time, his opponent got visibly mad and reacted.   

[robnplunder 974]

Yago!    I knew he is a Makuuchi material.   He got his kachikosh and Makuuchi division awaits.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Takanoiwa's winning kimarite over Chiyoshoma looked more deserving of, say, a kakenage than a shitatenage. His left leg was hooked around Chiyoshoma's inside leg. It wasn't that dissimilar to a move Yutakayama beat Mitakeumi with in July.

[Akinomaki 39,548]

That was a really mean slap by Shohozan. The NHK interviewer mentioned the awesome harite in the kachi-koshi interview, he replied that it's not really good - but not remorseful

[Akinomaki 39,548]

PR Shibatayama mentioned on NHK a possible ozeki run next basho for Takakeisho - usually the NSK officials are not that fast to  talk about those possibilities

Edit: After this bout it looks quite justified

Edited November 22, 2018 by Akinomaki

[Eikokurai 3,433]

It somehow completely passed me by that Goeido was kyujo today. A welcome gift for Mitakeumi.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

52 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

PR Shibatayama mentioned on NHK a possible ozeki run next basho for Takakeisho - usually the NSK officials are not that fast to  talk about those possibilities

Edit: After this bout it looks quite justified

20/27 wins and still with three to go this time. That’s Ozeki-run form for sure. 

Obviously I’ve just jinxed him and he’ll end on 20/30, which would still be solid but leave him facing a heck of a challenge in January when presumably at least two of the Yokozuna will be back.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Eikokurai

[robnplunder 974]

28 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

It somehow completely passed me by that Goeido was kyujo today. A welcome gift for Mitakeumi.

   Mita needed it b/c he was well into his usual second half collapse. 

[Amamaniac 2,078]

32 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

It somehow completely passed me by that Goeido was kyujo today. A welcome gift for Mitakeumi.

A welcome gift for Takayasu too!

[Adil 232]

56 minutes ago, Akinomaki said:

That was a really mean slap by Shohozan. The NHK interviewer mentioned the awesome harite in the kachi-koshi interview, he replied that it's not really good - but not remorseful

Haha! I was about to ask if I heard that correctly, but you answered it already. When the interviewer said 途中凄い張り手でしたね (That was a great slap in the middle [of the match], wasn't it?)、Shouhouzan replied そうですね、まああまりよくないですけど　(That's right... It's not a good thing, though.). My question: Are harite frowned upon? If so, why does Shouhouzan use them all the time? I also remember Harumafuji being warned about using harite too much during keiko (or was that jungyou?); the oyakata who spoke about it was quoted in the newspapers as saying 'Sumou is not brawling'. 

Would a rikishi who uses harite too much be considered to be doing something 'wrong'? It is definitely legal, but judging from what Shouhouzan said during the interview, there seems to be a level of, oh I don't know, reluctance (for lack of a better term) about using it too much.  

[Jakusotsu 5,743]

1 hour ago, Eikokurai said:

Takanoiwa's winning kimarite over Chiyoshoma looked more deserving of, say, a kakenage than a shitatenage. His left leg was hooked around Chiyoshoma's inside leg. It wasn't that dissimilar to a move Yutakayama beat Mitakeumi with in July.

Exactly my thoughts as well after the bout. (just ask the fellas in the German chatroom )

[Eikokurai 3,433]

24 minutes ago, Jakusotsu said:

Exactly my thoughts as well after the bout. (just ask the fellas in the German chatroom )

I shall write a strongly worded letter to the JSA demanding they correct this oversight at once.

[Kintamayama 44,254]

53 minutes ago, Adil said:

 

Would a rikishi who uses harite too much be considered to be doing something 'wrong'? It is definitely legal, but judging from what Shouhouzan said during the interview, there seems to be a level of, oh I don't know, reluctance (for lack of a better term) about using it too much.  

Frowned upon, just like henkas are frowned upon, but legal. The real question is who is frowning and why?

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

2 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Takanoiwa's winning kimarite over Chiyoshoma looked more deserving of, say, a kakenage than a shitatenage. His left leg was hooked around Chiyoshoma's inside leg. It wasn't that dissimilar to a move Yutakayama beat Mitakeumi with in July.

It was called shitatenage because Takanoiwa began with the underhand-grip throw attempt, Chiyoshoma quickly countered with a sotogake attempt, and Takanoiwa was able to power through and complete his throw. Aite's leg became trapped in the failed counter-throw. The throw was already in progress when an unsuccessful counter was tried in vain. The trapped leg was not a factor in the successful throw. Had Takanoiwa given up his throwing attempt (or had it stopped cold), and then tried again with his opponent's leg wrapped around his, it could have been called kakenage. But as it all happened in the flow of his shitatenage, the technique stands as officially decided.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

Henka and harite are moves you can use as much as you like as long as you feel bad about it. You’re not allowed to enjoy slapping or sidestepping people.

Edited November 22, 2018 by Eikokurai

[Eikokurai 3,433]

1 minute ago, Otokonoyama said:

It was called shitatenage because Takanoiwa began with the underhand-grip throw attempt, Chiyoshoma quickly countered with a sotogake attempt, and Takanoiwa was able to power through and complete his throw. Aite's leg became trapped in the failed counter-throw. The throw was already in progress when an unsuccessful counter was tried in vain. The trapped leg was not a factor in the successful throw. Had Takanoiwa given up his throwing attempt (or had it stopped cold), and then tried again with his opponent's leg wrapped around his, it could have been called kakenage. But as it all happened in the flow of his shitatenage, the technique stands as officially decided.

Sure, but that sort of logic isn’t applied consistently. On another day it could easily be called a kakenage.

[Otokonoyama 2,735]

16 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Sure, but that sort of logic isn’t applied consistently. On another day it could easily be called a kakenage.

No, it couldn't. Kakenage is inner-hooking thigh throw. And hooking the thigh is essential to the throw being completed. No hooking aite's thigh, they are not thrown. Chiyoshoma hooked Takanoiwa's lower leg with that desperation sotogake attempt, and at the calf the two legs remained hooked as the winner followed through and completed the shitatenage. Use of the leg was not needed to complete the throw, and no thigh hook was needed nor attempted. A crystal clear shitatenage.

[Eikokurai 3,433]

22 minutes ago, Otokonoyama said:

No, it couldn't. Kakenage is inner-hooking thigh throw. And hooking the thigh is essential to the throw being completed. No hooking aite's thigh, they are not thrown. Chiyoshoma hooked Takanoiwa's lower leg with that desperation sotogake attempt, and at the calf the two legs remained hooked as the winner followed through and completed the shitatenage. Use of the leg was not needed to complete the throw, and no thigh hook was needed nor attempted. A crystal clear shitatenage.

I’ve been watching sumo long enough to know that the calling of kimarite is nowhere near as exact and unambiguous as that, nor do kimarite as seen always resemble their descriptions in the kimarite list. There have been some dubious announcements just in this basho alone.

[Morty 1,479]

Shodai's throw on Hokutofuji today was a thing of beauty. That was Hakuho worthy in the way he waited and then used aite's weight against him. He has a lot of talent that young man. if he can use it consistently he will get that Ozeki rank and possibly go further.

And Takakeisho has won at least half his matches this basho with that move. If Takayasu is paying attention he should totally be expecting it.

[mikawa 1,794]

3 hours ago, Eikokurai said:

Takanoiwa's winning kimarite over Chiyoshoma looked more deserving of, say, a kakenage than a shitatenage. His left leg was hooked around Chiyoshoma's inside leg. It wasn't that dissimilar to a move Yutakayama beat Mitakeumi with in July.

Guess the Kimarite is a fun game, and like you say, it's definitely a lot more difficult than it first seems. Looking at videos of kakenage, my understanding of it is that the main move in a kakenage is the leg trip (with the throw to supplement), whereas it was the other way round in Takanoiwa's bout today, but yeah, it can be very subjective. Including a leg trip makes throw attempts a lot easier, but it has to be timed correctly.

Edited November 22, 2018 by mikawa

[Eikokurai 3,433]

2 minutes ago, mikawa said:

Guess the Kimarite is a fun game, and it's definitely a lot more difficult than it first seems. Looking at videos of kakenage, my understanding of it is that the main move in a kakenage is the leg trip (with the throw to supplement), whereas it was the other way round in Takanoiwa's bout today. Including a leg trip makes throw attempts a lot easier, but you have to time it correctly.

Guess the interpretation is also fun! So often the kimarite doesn’t match the description. I remember Ura being credited with the first tasukizori last year, but it looked nothing like how I’d pictured in my head from reading the explanation of it. A certain interpretative license is granted to the guy who calls them.

[mikawa 1,794]

3 minutes ago, Eikokurai said:

Guess the interpretation is also fun! So often the kimarite doesn’t match the description. I remember Ura being credited with the first tasukizori last year, but it looked nothing like how I’d pictured in my head from reading the explanation of it. A certain interpretative license is granted to the guy who calls them.

Absolutely, a lot of things in sumo are open to interpretation

[dingo 1,121]

Takakeisho's side slap seems to be almost as powerful of a weapon as his frontal slaps. This is at least the second time this basho when he sends his opponent down/out with a strong slap to the side.

I was really rooting for Ryuden, but beating Ichinojo at the tawara takes more power than Ryuden managed to generate. Respect to him for trying to beat Ichinojo straightforward, but maybe that wasn't the best idea.

Takayasu impressively managed to escape Tochinoshin's death grip. I thought for a moment that he's gonna lose for sure when he let Tochinoshin have migiyotsu, but Tochinoshin is not quite himself this basho. Things remain exciting!

[mikawa 1,794]

4 minutes ago, dingo said:

Takayasu impressively managed to escape Tochinoshin's death grip. I thought for a moment that he's gonna lose for sure when he let Tochinoshin have migiyotsu, but Tochinoshin is not quite himself this basho. Things remain exciting!

Tochinoshin tried very hard, but he wasn't able to get his left hand on Takayasu's belt, which proved to be decisive